Anybody who will say that the Church is not needed in salvation is stupid! Let us have a thorough study on this matter.
The common denominator of all equations regarding salvation is the savior. I do not want to call it LCD. Jesus Christ is the Savior. Every Christian believes this. Agreed?
Christ came on earth to teach the words of the Father in heaven, His commandments and his will.
John 12:49 says:
“For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.”
Anybody who listens to the Lord Jesus Christ listens to the Father. Agreed?
The words of Christ, which came from the Father, were written by the apostles and evangelists in the Bible. Agreed? Whether you agree or not, it is what the Bible says.
(1 Corinthians 14:37) “If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.”
The apostles and evangelists have written words which came from the mouth of the Lord Jesus Christ.
(1 John 1:3-4) “That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.”
Accepting the teachings and the writings of the apostles and evangelists is accepting the teachings of Christ and the Father. Agreed? Rejecting them is rejecting the Father and the Son. Agreed?
(Luke 10:16) “He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.”
The Scriptures do not use vain words in teaching.
(James 4:5) “Or do you think that the Scripture speaks to no purpose: “He jealously desires the Spirit which He has made to dwell in us”? NASB
Every word that the Lord Jesus Christ uttered is of utmost importance to salvation. Not a word of God is vain.
(Psalms 119:160) “All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal.” NIV
Every word counts!
(Proverbs 8:8-9) “All the words of my mouth are just; none of them is crooked or perverse. To the discerning all of them are right; they are faultless to those who have knowledge.”
Agreed?
The Lord Jesus Christ said, and was written by Matthew,
(Matthew 16:18) “And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
The word church came from God the Father and was spoken by our Lord Jesus Christ, and written by the apostles. It is part of His teachings! In fact, the word church was mentioned about 114 times in the writings of the apostles and the evangelists. It will not be written if it is not needed. It will not be built if it is not important. Agreed? God is a no-nonsense God. The idea and the structure of the Church came from Him.
(1 Corinthians 12:28) “And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.”
Jesus realized its importance so; He sacrificed for it and gave Himself for it. In fact, it is the very reason why He suffered and was killed.
(Acts 20:28) “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.”
Jesus Christ is a no-nonsense savior. He will not give Himself for the sake of the Church if it is not important and dear to Him.
(Ephesians 5:25) “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it…”
Why did He give Himself for the Church? To save it!
(Ephesians 5:23) “For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body.”
The Church is His body and He is the head.
(Colossians 1:18) “And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”
He loved the Church as His body, and gave His physical body to redeem the Church. Remember, “he is the savior of the body.”
Do you need the Church in order to be saved? Jesus Christ will save the body or the Church: To be saved, be a part of it.
(Ephesians 3:6) “That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel…”
The gospel is God’s power to salvation of them that believed.
(Romans 1:16) “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
The gospel teaches the true Church: The Church of God!
(2 Corinthians 1:1) “Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia…”
Whoever will say that the Church is not needed for salvation is stupid!
Who says that salvation has no requirement? Just entering your own house or dwelling place requires very important things. If on the way, you stepped on a shit, common sense requires you to take your shoes off before entering. Good morals require you to knock at the door of your child before entering his or her room.
If you are bound to hell, no requirement is needed. Satan will provide you with every evil available to be with him… eternally! See my point?
With Prayers, that you maybe enlightened.
Sincerely yours,
EFS
esoriano 
thanks be to God. It feels great to be in the Church Of God.
to God be the glory. AMEN
Again, at last, we got it all from Bro. Eli himself. Thanks and glory be to God forever, for someone like you!
Take note of this everyone.
Bro. Eli wrote, “Anybody who will say that the Church is not needed in salvation is stupid! Whoever will say that the Church is not needed for salvation is stupid!”.
And I believe so, too.
To Wolverine,
You said at first:
15 Wolverine!
i dnt nid a church to be saved!
And at last:
221 MAGNETO
TO DIMITRI AND COMPANY,
FRM:WOLVERINE!
YES! “I” NEED THE CHURCH OF GOD TO BE SAVED.
May God bless and enlighten you more.
To William,
Now, I believe the more that:
1. There really is something that satan could not do that all his ministers can.
2. That every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
3. That the mother of harlots is not much different from her siblings.
All I can say is:
Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Therefore:
2 Corinthians 9:15 Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
FOR WILLIAM : WILLIAM AND WILLIAM
HEAR WHAT ST.PETER SAID ABOUT ST. PAUL PLS. READ, READ CAREFULLY AND UNDERSTAND PLS. PLS. PLS.
2PETER 3:15-16 “AND ACCOUNT THAT THE LONGSUFFERING
OF OUR LORD IS SALVATION; EVEN AS OUR BELOVED BROTHER PAUL ALSO, ACCORDING TO THE WISDOM GIVEN TO HIM, WROTE UNTO YOU; AS ALSO IN ALL HIS EPISTLES, SPEAKING IN THEM OF THESE THINGS; WHEREIN ARE SOME THINGS HARD TO BE UNDERSTOOD, WHICH THE IGNORANT AND UNSTEDFAST WREST, AS THEY DO ALSO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION.(ASV)
hooooraaaaay !!!!
Whenever Bro Eli speaks, it seems that God is speaking before us (i believe there’s a verse for this). Very clear and easy to digest. And for those who don’t believe that CHURCH is needed for salvation, BETTER BELIEVE NOW. START SEARCHING.
Also, what the apostle Peter wrote is really true that some things that the apostle Paul wrote according to the wisdom given to him are hard to be understood that the unlearned and unstable wrest.
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
But the former never forgot to admonish.
2 Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Salamat po Bro. Eli sa pagbibigay liwanag sa paksang tinalakay. Salamat po sa Dios sa pagkakaroon ng isang katulad ni Bro. Eli!
To God be the Glory!!!
TO WOLVERINE:
Stirring up someone’s thought in order to have a challenging discussion has no place in a healthy discussion like this because it is tantamount in misleading someone. How if someone believed that salvation requireth nothing just for you to stir up someone’s thought? Therefore, stirring up someone’s thought has no room for this discussion. There’s a lot of way in order to have a challenging discussion. If you have a views in contrast with other’s views, give a clear stand and a definite argument about it. I guess the challenge you are looking will be more beneficial to the majority. Anyway, it seems that you enlighten about the topic. May God bless and enlighten you more. Hope that you watch UNTV37 Ang Dating Daan Program! May God bless you!
TO GOD BE THE GLORY!!!!
What I understand now is that anything that JESUS CHRIST has uttered or taught to the apostles and they have written in the bible is needed in our salvation.
Therefore, church built by JESUS commanded by the FATHER is very important for us who believe in HIM.
wow! im realy amazed….fantastic!!! more power to bro. eli and bro. daniel…from lokal ng trece, cavite.
WHERE IS GOD?
THIS IS A TRUE STORY:
There was this King who ruled his kingdom for many years. His every desire was satisfied, but still he felt there must be more to life than just satisfying ones instincts. He wanted to experience God – know who he was.
He asked his courtiers to find God for him, but none of them could help him. He had heard about a shepherd boy named David who seemed content with his lot. He called him to his palace and asked him, “Where is God, I want to experience, God”. David took him out to the fields and asked the King could he see God. The king said, “No, where is God”?
David said that he is up in the air, all around him. But still the King could not understand or experience, God. David took him to a well and said that God was in the well. The King looked at David and said, “In the well, God is in the well!!” David asked the King to look in the well and the King obliged. He then said, “All I can see is water and my image”! David said to the King, “You have found God”! You and I are the image of God.
Can you see God when you look in a mirror? The kingdom of God is within you!!
Neither shall they say, Lo here! Or, lo there! For, behold, the kingdom of God is within you [Luke 17: 21].
Peace Be With You
Micky
Brother,
Peace!
Just a comment on your statement :”He loved the Church as His body, and gave His physical body to redeem the Church. Remember, “he is the savior of the body.”
Consider the ff:
If the Church is His body in essence, and gave his physical body to redeem it. Therefore it means that his physical body (flesh) is so important right? But in John 6: 63 we read, let me quote:
“THE SPIRIT IS THAT WHICH MAKES ALIVE, THE FLESH FROFITS NOTHING, THE WORDS THAT WHICH I HAVE SPOKEN TO YOU ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE.”” …”The flesh profits nothing he said”.
Well, it doesnt require a theologian to understand this, does it? An attentive children with an eyesight of 20/20 would get his point.
It is the words, not the flesh and blood that delivered them, that one must eat and drink to receive eternal life, Is it not?
It constitute the living bread and it is the true manna from heaven and thus when we do that, the HOLY SPIRIT comes into us with the Word, the two are inseparable, Eternal life is the result , we are born from above. He clarified it in John 5: 24 when he said let me quote:
“Truly truly i say to you that the one hearing my word and believing the one having sent me has eternal life, and does not come into JUDGEMENT but is moved out of death into life”
He said it clearly ….”does not come into judgment” . So what about the flesh? once again which is very important to your doctrine. He said : “The flesh profits nothing” meaning from Jesus’ viewpoint (in contrast to St. Paul’ viewpoint), the flesh, his flesh with its blood gains nothing for anyone . Is flesh important or not? if not, then how is it possible to redeem your so called church by his flesh?
your brother in absolute reality,
william
Brothers and sisters,
Peace!
The “Word” saith it : You search the scriptures, because YOU SUPPOSE IN THEM to be having eternal life and these are those witnessing concerning me. And YOU DONT WANT TO
COME TO ME (instead, you come to that man) in order that you have life. (John 5:39-40)
In another occasion he saith: “If you abide in my word, (not the word of that man), YOU ARE TRULY MY DISCIPLES, and YOU WILL KNOW THE TRUTH, AND THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE” (John 8:31)
He warned them:
“Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ or there, believe it not. “Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold he IS IN THE DESERT (road to damascus); go not forth;
behold he is in the SECRET CHAMBER ( in the cell); believe it not” ( Matthew 24:26)
“Truly, truly, I say unto you he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, is a thief and a robber (He was never choosen as one of the 12); but he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens; the sheep hear his voice and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger (that man is stranger to Jesus. they never met) they will not follow,
but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers” (john 10:1-5)
And so:
“Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain and ran greedily after the error of BAlaam
for reward and perished in the gainsaying of Core. (Jude verse 11)
“These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit” (Jude verse 19)
“And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another and shall hate one another
(Matthew 24:10)
“Come out ***”her” , my people that ye be not partakers
of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plaques. (Revelation 18:4)
Thus, Anybody who will say that the Church of that man(***”Churches of christendom” branching into more than 38,000 denomination claiming to be the true one, who hate one another either by pride, by authority, money etc.)is needed in salvation is not only ignorant but ignorant of his own ignorance.
your brother in absolute reality,
william
It seems that we are heading to a certain island and all of us is swimming for our survival in the midst of the ocean.
a certain group is inviting you to join them in heading to that island, they did not assure that you will survive in the couse of the event because after all you are the one who work for your own survival.
But something they can assure, they can make your body endure in the course by disciplining you a proper survival technique through doctrines of christ and enhance your hope through faith.
In the finish line of the shore of that island, maybe you can tell and proud yourself that you make it!.
But, are you going to forget the group that keep you warm in the coldness of the ocean of hardship, holding you and reminding you in the wave of temptation, and sharing strenght and hope to oppose the current of the ocean.
After all, the owner of that island which is a name called Jesus Christ asking you;
How much life do you save?
And that’s why the CHURCH is needed.
EYES
Truly, this article realizes me more the importance of the Church of God.
To all who are saying Church of God is not needed in salvation, think again it barely need’s a COMMON SENSE and a LITTLE UNDERSTANDING after seeing the evidences in the scriptures brought up by Bro. Eli.
Church of God built by Christ is needed in salvation but if the “Church of christ of Mr. Manalo in the Philippines” it’s better not to have a church, better to live in the midst of the mountains maybe you will be save!
Yes! Once again we have seen why Church is needed in salvation of humans! Thanks be to God for the evidences written in the scriptures brought up in this article by Bro. Eli Soriano.
Bro. Eli is right the God of the Bible is a non-sense God, He is full of Knowledge, Christ estabilsh the Church of God, Christ will SAVE the body which is the Churhc so better be affiliated to the Church that will save by Christ and that is the CHURCH OF GOD!
Thanks be to God for this very enlightning article of Bro. Eli!
God Bless!
YEHEY!!! I was right!! Hey guys!! Sorry for not having been too “vocal” in this debate!!! I havent been online that much lately!! YEHEY!! Salamat sa DIOS!!
Thank God for having been inthe Church… The Church built by the Lord Jesus Christ. Praise be to God the Father…! Jet, we were right! Hehehehe.. Good thing some weere convinced that the CHURCH really is needed for our salvation.. as what I havee beem posting since the previous posts, the messengers of God wouldnt mention something about salvation that is irrelevant.. and one of those being preached is the CHURCH. “…The CHURCH OF GOD IN CHRIST JESUS, The Pillar and Ground of the Truth…” – I Timothy 3:15
Thanks be to God always!!!
INDEED! I AGREE! NOW THAT BRO.ELI HAD QUALIFIED THE TOPIC INTO “THE CHURCH OF GOD IS NEEDED FOR SALVATION”NOW THERES NO ROOM FOR ME TO SAY THAT I DNT NEED A CHURCH TO BE SAVED BECUASE ITS VERY OBVIOUS THAT WHEN HE MENTIONED “WHOSOEVER WILL SAY THAT THE CHURCH IS NOT NEEDED FOR SALVATION IS STUPID!
CLEARLY HE WAS REFERING TO THE CHURCH OF GOD NOT TO JUST ANY CHURCH THAT SPRANG OUT OF NO WHERE!
AND TO BE INSIDE THE CHURCH REQUIRES MUCH WORK TO ATTAIN THE ETERNAL LIFE!
WHEN BRO ELI QUALIFIES AND EXPLAINS SOMETHIN EVRYTHING JUST TURNS OUT TO BE CRYSTALL CLEAR UNLIKE SOME OTHER THICK HEADED PIPOL WHO JUST WANNA BRAG THAT THEY KNOW SOMETHIN.
Thanks to God for enlightening our minds in understanding the importance of the Church.
We are so fortunate of having a preacher in our time that is truly faithful to God whom God had given the key in unlocking the mysteries of His Word.
Mark 4:11 – “And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Those who continue to resist the wisdom that Bro. Eli speaks of will definitely eat the dust and will be forever stuck in hearing parables!
May God’s force be always with you Bro. Eli !!!
TO: William
he ..he.. he ….he … Actually you just misunderstand Saint Paul;
Because Saint Paul writings is the interpretation of four gospel of Christ.
As what Jesus Christ said “Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.” (Matthew 13:13)
Don’t you know that Saint Paul is the product of the following verses:
From Old Testament;
“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:….” (Genesis 1:26)
“For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.” (Genesis 3:5)
And in New Testament;
“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:21)
“Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?” (John 10:34)
“If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;” (John 10:35)
Don’t you know that you can be also like a little or likened Saint Paul? How?
Join us in our Church (MCGI known as ADD), and be babtize; follow the love covenant between you and our Lord Jesus Christ.
And join us singing in a naked louder voice; Song #60 (hope this song will be sing before song # 1)
‘At sa langit naming bayan
Laging aawitan
Alleluyah na walang hanggan
Sa Amang marangal”
After that you will understand Saint Paul because the arrogance of the flesh overcome the wickedness of consciousness.
EYES
To Bro. Eli,
Ang galing po… the way, the approach, the presentation the topic was discussed by you, PINASAYA NIO NA NAMAN ANG PUSO NAMIN! LONG LIVE BRO ELI! We learned a great way on how we are going to reason out with the detractors of the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ…
Thanks be to God! Thanks be to God! Thanks be to God! Thanks be to God! Thanks be to God! Thanks be to God! Thanks be to God! THANKS BE TO GOD!!!!!!!!!!
To a Lost Soul BUT NOW FOUND Wolverine
Thanks be to God for listening. MATALINO KA! Maybe you’re one of the Lamb mentioned in John 10:16 – And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
With our bros. and sisters open arms: WELCOME TO THE CHURCH OF GOD, BRO WOLVE!
THANKS BE TO GOD!
To alanrakaf
Bro, John 3:34 – For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
Ang saya natin, no? Thanks be to God!
Brothers and sisters,
Peace!
To: Bro. Antonio, Antonio, Antonio
topic: 2 Peter 3: 15Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
Brother, St. Peter and his flocks (Petrine “christianity”) is pro- Law, they ‘re faithful to the “LAW” while St. Paul and his sect (Pauline christianity) is Anti-Law or simply Unfaithful to the “LAW”, and therefore they’re like Oil and Water they will never mix. And Ironically your Church forefathers made them the two Pillars of the Church.
Jesus knew about it even before, that’s why Jesus saith to Simon Peter let me quote:
“Simon, son of Jonah, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs”. He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” And he said to him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep. Most assuredly I say to you, when you were younger, you bound yourself and walked where you wished; but when you are old, you will stretch forth your hands. And ANOTHER WILL BIND YOU AND TAKE YOU WHERE YOU DO NOT WISH.” John 21:15-18
Now you mentioned about 2Peter 315
…….”even as our beloved Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you …..2Peter 3:15
2Peter 3:15 was really authentic in the sense that it was really written by the writer of St. Paul ! The prophecy of Jesus was fulfilled , so whenever you utilize that verse, you are again binding St. Peter and take him where he did not wish to go!
Well, let us assume for a while that the 2 peter epistle is really authentic meaning let us for a moment believe not – the scholarly opinion that it’s a Pseudo-epistle.
Let us have a careful look at the verses in trial.
“And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him.” (verse 15)
“Speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. (verse 16)
The Supposed to be Original:
“ The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. (verse 9)
“But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up. (verse 10)
“Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons out you to be in lives of holiness and godliness” (verse 11)
“waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindles and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire! “(verse 12)
“But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and new earth in which righteousness dwells” (verse 13)
“YOU THEREFORE, BELOVED, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability (VERSE 17)
“But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to day of Eternity. Amen (verse 18)
Now, Let us examine – The Doctored Version: (the one in the Bible in circulation)
“ The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. (verse 9)
“But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up. (verse 10)
“Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons out you to be in lives of holiness and godliness” (verse 11)
“waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindles and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire! “(verse 12)
“But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and new earth in which righteousness dwells” (verse 13)
“THEREFORE, BELOVED, Since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot of blemish and at peace (verse 14)
“And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him.” (verse 15)
“Speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. (verse 16)
“ You THEREFORE, BELOVED, knowing this beforehand, beward lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability” ( Verse 17)
“But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to day of Eternity. Amen (verse 18)
Brother, Do you see the repetition of “THEREFORE, BELOVED” in verse 14 and 17? It seems an unlikely doubled conclusion. That is a marker suggesting that Peter intended to close the epistle beginning with verse 14. Then, the Paulinist made his insertion and thought that he ought to repeat the phrase to make Peter’ conclusion as Peter had intended.
your brother in absolute reality,
william
to post #10
Consider the ff:
If the Church is His body in essence, and gave his physical
body to redeem it. Therefore it means that his physical
body (flesh) is so important right?
yes it is important when He sacrifice it for the church! but
did Jesus Christ risen from the dead? did the flesh remain
as flesh? Mat.28… And He commanded the disciples to
teach all nations..So nothing contradict in John 6:63..they
are spirit, and they are life.
Just remember the words of God is like swords with two
sharp edges sometimes talking of literal things or spirit, and
non of the wicked should understand Daniel 12:9-10, just
stick on the sensible preacher in time…
To the unstoppable ignorance of William
There’s no problem with the verses you’re posting. But when you made your conclusions, that’s where you fall. Sablay. You always missed the real intent or contexts of the verses you had presented. Let me prove.
WILLIAM: But in John 6: 63 we read, let me quote: “THE SPIRIT IS THAT WHICH MAKES ALIVE, THE FLESH FROFITS NOTHING, THE WORDS THAT WHICH I HAVE SPOKEN TO YOU ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE.”” …”The flesh profits nothing he said”.
Dom: ”The flesh profits nothing“ you concluded. That’s the only thing you knew about this verse. Shallow. Ibabaw lang ang alam mo!
Let me give you something to ponder about, William: It’s true, the flesh profits nothing…the verse is clear. But do you know that a SPIRIT CAN PROFIT FROM THE FLESH???? IT CAN BE READ EVEN IT IS NOT WRITTEN. Gulat again? Do you know HOW? I don’t think so! You know why? BECAUSE YOU ARE STILL OUTSIDE THE CHURCH! This info is being taught to us by the SPEAKER OF GOD of this end times to the Members of the Church of God (John 3:34 -For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.)
I can’t give you the complete details of this teaching coz… the info are not for DOGS and PIGS! Read: (Mat. 7:6 – Give NOT that which is HOLY unto theDOGS, neither cast ye your PEARLS before SWINES, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.) Ingat, Bro. HOLY things are discuss inside the congregation and they are not for public consumption.
We are inviting you to visit our gatherings… study with us and in the end… time will come that YOU WILL REALIZE FOR YOURSELVES HOW IGNORANT YOU ARE. I can see me in you before I joined group. Learn the Doctrines of the Bible in the CHURCH OF GOD… and accumulate treasures of endless WISDOM! The more you posts… the more your IGNORANCE MANIFESTS. Sorry for saying this. We LOVE you that’s why we have to be HONEST with you! There are lot things to discover in the Church of God. You conclusions are pure WILD IMAGINATIONS! What you are hearing from us are just the TIP of the ICEBERG.
Have you read the latest post of Wolverine? You are welcome also!
To Wolverine,
You said, “INDEED! I AGREE! NOW THAT BRO.ELI HAD QUALIFIED THE TOPIC INTO “THE CHURCH OF GOD IS NEEDED FOR SALVATION”NOW THERES NO ROOM FOR ME TO SAY THAT I DNT NEED A CHURCH TO BE SAVED BECUASE ITS VERY OBVIOUS THAT WHEN HE MENTIONED “WHOSOEVER WILL SAY THAT THE CHURCH IS NOT NEEDED FOR SALVATION IS STUPID!”
You know, you shouldn’t have waited for Bro. Eli to say that whosoever will say that the church is not needed for salvation is stupid for you to say YES to the topic. Just think of it. The Church of God is a church, right? So when you are asked if you need a church to be saved, you should readily say yes, but only if it is the Church of God in the bible. And for one, of course that is the only church, which Bro. Eli is preaching about.
But nonetheless, I thank God that you were enlightened. Now, I suggest that you watch The Ang Dating Daan tv program of Bro. Eli on channel 37 and also in the internet. Just click on the links on the right side of this window.
May God bless you.
To Micky,
1. Is God within the people in cabarets, gambling places, pot sessions, street gang wars, etc…? Tell me. Isn’t God, a God of peace? Isn’t peace from Him?
2. How about in Ananias’ heart when he lied to the Holy Ghost? Was He there also? Tell me. Isn’t God, truth? Can He lie?
3. When a criminal, a murderer, a fornicator, etc… watch him/herself in a mirror, can he/she see God also? Isn’t the kingdom of God, righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost?
Brother,
Peace!
you said: “yes it is important when He sacrifice it for the church! but did Jesus Christ risen from the dead? did the flesh remain as flesh? ” (Comment # 24)
Kindly consider the ff:
Brother, the flesh really profits nothing because what is important in salvation is his words coming from the Father, it really constitute the living bread and it is the true manna from heaven because whosoever hearing his word and believing the one having sent him has eternal life, and does not come into JUDGEMENT but is moved out of death into life” He said it clearly ….”does not come into judgment” (JOhn 5:24), thus in essence the container is nothing,what is important is the substance inside it. or simply the “Words” that dwellethin that flesh is important with regards to achieving eternal life,
the flesh is only the vehicle, a necessity.
Jesus risen from the dead? Yes, but first we must understand that the real Saviour is not the body but the “Word” in that body right? This “Word” existed before Abraham, right? so it does logically follows that before his incarnation He was the “WORD”, Is he not? Therefore, After delivering the message of his father, the “Word” must have been so happy to have left his body and returned to his heavenly abode as a “Word” which is his absolute entity, right? so Jesus resurrected but not in HIS flesh (physical body per se) but his flesh turned into glorious form. As a matter of scriptures, mary magdalene (who was the first disciples who saw jesus) and what was striking- she was unable to recognized her Master, why? simply because he was not merely in flesh. and there were also instances of the two devotees talking to the ressurected christ but they have no idea that it was christ, why again?simply because he was not merely in flesh but his flesh turned into glorious form. But of course I am not saying that Jesus cannot ressurect his flesh, He is powerful, and He even said it, DESTROY this TEMPLE and I WILL RAISE IT ON THE THIRD DAY, he even resurrected Lazarus from the dead taking it literally, though resurrection of Lazarus also has mystical implication. but the MAIN POINT is what is the spiritual significance of it with regards to SALVATION, b’coz this is our MAIN POINT OF CONCERN. He said it very clearly …”THE FLESH PROFITS NOTHING. It is his words that is important, it is the true manna from heaven that we should “eat”.
So, did the flesh remain as flesh? the story of thomas putting his finger (hand) in the body of christ is the only source that He is in flesh taking the context literally. But It is logically conceivable that He returned to his father as a “Word” without the flesh because what is the significance of his flesh in purely spiritual region?
Well, the resurrection incident is recorded in matthew’ gospel. And the writer relates that after the crucifixion when jesus body had been placed in a sepurcher, the roman guards
first sits through earthquake and then witness an angel of the lord (whose “countenance was like lightning, and his
raiment white is snow” mat 28:3) roll back the stone from the tomb and sit on it. According to the story, they did shake and became as dead men( mat. 28:4), BUT ACTUAL RESURRECTION AND EXIT FROM THE TOMB IS NOT RECOUNTED, but as the conclusion of their watch the soldiers go into the town and tell, the chief priest what had happened. At this, they are bribed with large sums of money to spread the story that jesus disciples had come during the night and removed his body from the tomb, while they (the soldiers) had slept. Matthew adds “ And this saying (story) is commonly reported among the jews until this day.! And by the way, if you had witness such an obviously divine will you accept a bribe? it is very unlikely but of course it is still possible, matthew’s story clearly told to counter the prevalent belief that Jesus’ body had disappeared from the tomb because some of the disciples had come and taken it. But it can also be asked with justification
Who actually recorded what had happened,if the only eyewitnesses were bribed to say otherwise?
Why did the roman soldiers report to the jewish chief of priests rather than their own superior officers?
Well, there seems little doubt in that the story, and strangely, the writer of Mark Gospel did not mention anything about it, YOu see, the writer of mark’ gospel is somewhat a lover of miracles stories but he makes no mention of the resurrection stories, for one who is a lover of miracles, this ommision
is surprising, for it may have made a good material, it can only be presumed that either the writer of Mark’s gospel
had not heard or did not believe in the resurrection stories of the flesh.
And for your information the ressurection of physical bodies on some distant day of Judgment is a religious idea originating in the ancient Middle East. The belief existed LONG BEFORE Christianity, being a tenet of MIthraism, one of the most prevalent of the many Roman religions or cults which spread
throughout the empire from the middle east to britain, also taught the ressurection of the dead on some far off day of judgment. It was also held by the Pharisaic side
of Judaism, and St. Paul having been raised as a Pharisee, firmly believed in it, marking it a part of early christianity in the non-jewish world. He brings it into his letters on many occasions and it is almost certainly he who is largely
responsible for its presence in Christianity of Today. It was a concept introduced when the real meaning of being raised from the dead had been forgotten. It is,
once again an externalization of an inward
spiritual truth.
So again, What is the spiritual significance of raising the body (flesh) with regards to our salvation in the light of Jesus’ teaching? ( Let me point it very clearly – IN THE LIGHT OF JESUS THAT WALKED ON EARTH and not in light and interpetation of St. Paul) Thank you!
“the flesh profits nothing ”
your brother in absolute reality,
william
Brother,
Peace!
You wrote: “Because Saint Paul writings is the interpretation of four gospel of Christ.”
Brother, Paul’s teaching is not an interpretation of the synoptics. He has a different thought contrary to the 4 gospels! (I already presented some, and many more to come but i think it is better to study those verses one by one.- It is open for discussion. Is it not? ) HIs message came from the direct revelation of his Jesus Christ.
“But I certify you, brethen, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man. neither was I taught (it) but by the revelation of Jesus Christ” (Galatian 1:11-12)
It means, he has no need of learning from any human being, not even from the apostles, he is completely independent, that is the reason why in his own understanding He can even correct any of the apostles even Peter himself.
your brother in absolute reality,
william
Brother,
Peace!
You wrote: the owner of that island which is a name called Jesus Christ asking you;How much life do you save?And that’s why the CHURCH is needed.
I Agree, If that is indeed pertains to the “Ekklesia” or belonging to the “little flocks” of Jesus. But what if that Church is not of Jesus but used the word Jesus Christ only in name in order to deceive many including the very elect? I think it is stupidity to stay there, Right?
your brother in absolute reality,
william
“TO GOD BE THE GLORY” Thanks be to GOD, for giving us the Most Sensible Preacher in this time, BRO. ELI SORIANO.
We knew that satan is always trying his very best in making complicated in the minds of people, the simple things in this world especially the Gospel of Christ, causing to sometimes mislead and deceived many to turn into oblivion than faith, but not the TRUE BELIEVERS AND FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST IN THE CHURCH OF GOD. Let us be realistic by not pretending to know more about something, instead to seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit in comprehending the Gospel, to focus on the Scriptures as written. Fearing and following GOD’s Commandment includes believing in his Gospel…. which are Eph. 5:23 and Eph.5:25, that truely there is a CHURCH whom our LORD JESUS CHRIST had purchased with his own blood, and that is the CHURCH OF GOD, the true religion necessary for salvation.
MARAMING SALAMAT SA DIOS….SALAMAT Bro. ELI..Mabuhay Ka…
Risen
To William,
1. You said, “If the Church is His body in essence, and gave his physical body to redeem it. Therefore it means that his physical body (flesh) is so important right?”
Of course, yes! Jesus is no non-sense. He said it Himself that the bread that He will give is His flesh, which He will give FOR THE LIFE OF THE WORLD! Will He give something not so important?
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
God the Father is no-nonsense either. In fact, He gave His only begotten Son. Is His Son not so important? Remember the verse, which is very popular among born again movements.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
2. You said, “The flesh profits nothing” meaning from Jesus’ viewpoint (in contrast to St. Paul’ viewpoint), the flesh, his flesh with its blood gains nothing for anyone .” citing:
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
That is just your added conclusion. Notice the verse again. Did He say, “My flesh profiteth nothing”? No!
In verse 51, He said the bread that He will give is His flesh. Will He give something that profiteth nothing? In fact, that flesh that He will give is FOR THE LIFE OF THE WORLD.
Will He contradict Himself? No! The Lord Jesus Christ was very particular, as manifested with the pronouns used.
3. You asked, “Is flesh important or not? if not, then how is it possible to redeem your so called church by his flesh? ”
How could we say that it is not important, when His body was prepared of Him when He came to the world?
Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Now, how will He redeem the church? He gave Himself.
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Now, did He really give His flesh, for the life of the world? We all know that He was crucified. Don’t we?
Was it the spirit that was nailed to the cross? Of course, not! It has no flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). It was the body, the flesh, that was nailed. You can’t deny that. Can you?
4. In fact, the very same people who crucified Him, his body of course, who were pricked in their heart when they heard what apostle Peter said of this, were baptized.
Acts 2:36-41
To William,
Maybe for you, His flesh was of less if not of no importance at all, thereby making your succeeding post irrelevant anymore.
Have you ever thought of every stripe that He bore? Well, no wonder, because the princes of this world knew not the Lord of glory, like you.
1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
But for christians in the bible:
Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
And the faithful should forever be grateful for that.
To William,
1. You said, “Brother, Do you see the repetition of “THEREFORE, BELOVED” in verse 14 and 17? It seems an unlikely doubled conclusion. That is a marker suggesting that Peter intended to close the epistle beginning with verse 14. Then, the Paulinist made his insertion and thought that he ought to repeat the phrase to make Peter’ conclusion as Peter had intended. ”
That is just your conclusion. And that is a very weak argument of yours.
Anyone can always make a conclusion after every premise or foundation he/she lays just like what you did, which I have quoted you as saying above.
And a conclusion, FYI, according to Mr. Word Web, is A position or opinion or judgment reached after consideration. Get that?
The one in verse 14 was for the previous verses. And the other in verse 17 was for 15 and 16. What is wrong with that? He even added a ‘BUT’ in verse 18.
And for one, is there any contradiction between these particular verses in 2 Peter, that you mentioned, against the other verses in the bible? If there is any, with regards to this, tell us.
Who among from the preacher in this perilous time of information intoxication shall amke the words of hope?
Who disclaim and denounces the Truth?
The Bible so on and so forth,blah, blah!
Scripture:
“Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee: to deliver thee from the way of the evil man, from the man that speaketh froward things; Who leave the path of uprightness, to walk in the way of darkness; Who rejoice to do evil, and delight in the frowardness of the wicked; Whose ways are crooked, and they froward in their paths”
Proverbs 2:11-15
Thus The truth shall set you free, and it did!
Shall we set our hopes to the beliefs of the perverts who brought shame, pains and sufferings?
Never! Time and time again The Bible stood by its reputation and the truth infallable!
More Power to you brother Eli
GOD Bless in CHRIST
To William,
1. You said, “Brother, St. Peter and his flocks (Petrine “christianity”) is pro- Law, they ‘re faithful to the “LAW” while St. Paul and his sect (Pauline christianity) is Anti-Law or simply Unfaithful to the “LAW”, and therefore they’re like Oil and Water they will never mix. And Ironically your Church forefathers made them the two Pillars of the Church.”
You must really be out of your mind to believe what you have heard from whoever you heard these things. Actually, I have read from people in the internet pages like you these things that you have mentioned. And I found them all to be very impertinent.
The fact that the apostle Peter called the apostle Paul, brother, should end your hallucinations. Not even their teachings contradict. If there is, tell us.
Let me show you one example.
Peter wrote:
1 Peter 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
Paul wrote:
1 Timothy 2:9 ¶In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
I just wonder if your women are following this.
2. You said, “The prophecy of Jesus was fulfilled , so whenever you utilize that verse, you are again binding St. Peter and take him where he did not wish to go!” citing:
John 21:18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
That is still just your conclusion, which is wrong again. Do not forget the next verse, the reason why He spoke this – signifying by what death He would glorify God.
John 21:19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.
Even you, when you are younger, you can really go wherever you would. But when you are old, what do you expect when the evil days come and the years draw near?
Ecl 12:1-7
When you die, another shall really carry you where you do not wish to go. Don’t tell me you wish to go there. Wishing that will be very dangerous:
a. because that is against God’s will for all men, which is to endure up to the end, be saved.
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
b because the soul of every living thing is in His hands.
Job 12:10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
before i only believed that jesus is only the savior but when i heard bro. Eli preaching the true gospel of christ since then i have realized the importance of being in a true Church of God. This is what matthew 6:33 came to realization which said, “seek ye first the Kingdom of God…”, the kingdom that some mis-understood is the Church of God where true believers come together to worship in spirit and truth. This is a place also where mystery of the gospel of Christ being plainly preached through his true servant. Outside of this place the words of God is just mystery and symbolism that’s why before i only understood the name of Christ nothing more. This is what matt. said, ” many will come in my name…”. I am a victim before. But now with bro. Eli I believe he is a true servant of God now a day who can read to us plainly the gospel of Christ in the true Church of God. Be a partaker of this Church to be a true worshipper of God in spirit and in truth. ssD!
TO WILLIAM FOR WILLIAM AND WILLIAM:
I NOTICED THAT YOU TWISTED A LOT OF VERSES IN THE BIBLE. HEAR THIS
2PETER 1:20 “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any PRIVATE INTERPRETATION.
2PETER 1:21 “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of GOD spake moved by the Holy Ghost.
To William,
1. You said, “For the keen observer, it is noticeable that churches of today are like combination of Salad, it is like Wendy’s Salad or Kentucky’ fresh salad.”
Try us. Submit yourself for indoctrination sessions, before you say that. If you really love us, finish all sessions and absorb what Bro Eli has to say according to the bible, and tell us, if we are just being fooled and please state why. Attend all worship services, prayer meetings, and thanksgivings, and tell me if you won’t feel love in there. If you really think that we are just being fooled, then for our sake, if you really love us, study everything first and reason with us then.
For all you know, Bro. Eli is the best cook there is in the world today, literally and biblically. Not even all these fast food chains you enumerated can surpass. I was all hungry until more than a year ago.
I am proud to say that not even the poorest of the poor is hungry in this group. Unlike all other churches, where you can see their members begging for food in the streets literally, and having too much of the spoilage that their priests, pastors, ministers, etc… had to serve in their banquets figuratively, making them love the more to stay in their houses than attend to see them.
2. You said, “Thus it is true, it is good to be born a child but bad to remain a child, likewise, it’s good to be born in a church, but it is bad to die there. ”
Of course every man is born a child, a baby that is. Never have I heard of a man born an adult.
It is really good to be born in a church, if that is the Church of God, which the Lord Jesus Christ, as the head and the saviour thereof (Eph 5:23), purchased with His own blood Acts 20:28). And when I die, I’d really love to die there and nowhere else (Rev 14:13).
3. You said, “let us always remember that any man who seem to be religious but does not bridle his tonque but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is vain and that blessing and cursing should not comeforth from our mouth. ”
Maybe you mentioned this, talking about Bro. Eli’s temper.
Well, you know:
Proverbs 15:23 ¶A man hath joy by the answer of his mouth: and a word spoken in due season, how good is it!
Proverbs 25:11 ¶A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.
You put yourself in God’s position again in a moment. Your children, whom you love dearly, went astray. What are you going to say and do?
God said,
Proverbs 1:24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
And unto the one whom He sent:
Isaiah 58:1 ¶Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a
trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
I’d rather treasure someone like this who is honest, than someone who is soft-spoken but beguiles people with his vain deceits.
To 228 Adlib Break
You said, “To Dominic,Dimitri and Jet,
Good Post from you guys…continue what you had stared…im on ur side…Ephesians 6:12”
I am not worthy. I am just sharing what little knowledge was sprinkled on me. I was even corrected by Bro. R (I have a feeling – it’s DSR). And I am very glad about that. And God-willing, I always will subject myself for his corrections, and especially also that of Bro. Eli, because never have I spoken to him directly, even in writing. And I’d love to experience that.
To Wolverine,
I’m sorry I was wrong when I said you waited for Bro. Eli to say whoever will say that the church is not needed for salvation is stupid. I remembered your post #221. It’s a good thing.
I hope you believed because not only that you do not want to be called stupid, but most especially becuase it is written in the bible.
Now, I really suggest that you submit yourself for indoctrination. Do not be like me, which the Lord’s longsuffering took 6 years more or less while I was listening and watching Bro Eli on radio and tv, 23 years all my life. I was like an overripe mango. And not until I first rode in an airplane, where air pockets scared me, that I decided to push through.
Do not wait for something like that to happen to you.
May God bless and enlighten you.
to post # 28
Consider the ff:
If the Church is His body in essence, and gave his physical
body to redeem it. Therefore it means that his physical
body (flesh) is so important right? Is it important or not? Did
Jesus tell my flesh inherit nothing?
Jesus at that very moment when they kill his body
is it flesh? did the flesh hurt did it’s shows agony of cruelty?
if he said that time I’m the word that dwelleth in this body
do you think anyone can understand? He must fulfill his
mission first, because everything that uses for people of
God is important, Romans 8:28, And we know that all things
work together for good to them that love God…flesh that
inherit nothing because it will change from corruptible into
incorruptible thats why He gave his body as an example for
changing, but it does not mean it is not important, actually
all the things that you see will turn to nothing! but is it
important or not? but it doesn’t follow that the body that
they kill is the savior of course not!
His words comes first and even after that he taught also
before He return to Heaven, John 1:14, And the word was
made flesh, and dwelt among us, ( and we beheld his glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of
grace and truth.
To make it clear for you, you misinterpret Christ is the
head of the body (church) and savior of it, Ephesians 5:23,
Collosians 1:18, and you conclude his body ( flesh ) it is
very far different from the body (church ) and likewise you
quote: John 6:63,..: the words that I speak unto you, they
are spirit, and they are life., so it make sense that you don’t
really understand the spiritual side of it..It’s definitely this
verses doesn’t interacting with each other you mixed up
already, you are asking (flesh) is so important right? For
what instance for salvation for eternal life? or for use as
necessity? As you said it is a vehicle, a necessity but it will
not go to heaven as flesh that’s why the importance is only
up to here not up to heaven..
Romans 8:3, For what the law could not do, in that it was
weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the
likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the
flesh: Question: Does Jesus has a sinful flesh? you think..,
Jesus seen on his time unspotted from sin, did his physical
body that time sinful? But his body represent sinners,
because “words” or spirit of him cannot show on without
the flesh, but the flesh is not the savior definitely!
You have so many inputs of histories but resulting to mixed
up mind, and if your not chosen to be a preacher of God,
better just listen to Bro. eli you can ask, for your
enlightment…Peace!
To William,
1. You said, ” Brother, the flesh really profits nothing…”
and added, ” the flesh is only the vehicle, a necessity.”
Look at you! I thought you said the flesh really profits nothing. Now, the flesh is a necessity? And it is only a vehicle?
Where do you really stand? You are very keen in citing contradictions between Paul’s writings and that of the other apostles and of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, when you could not even see that of yours!
According to the bible, from the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, people like you are hypocrites.
Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
You people are really like that. When the bible says, “it is impossible for God to lie”, you say, “there is nothing impossible with God”, even adding that He is omnipotent. When the bible mentions something that neither came to His mind, you say, “He is omniscient”. And when the bible mentions a place where God dwelleth not, you say, “He is omnipresent”. These words cannot even be found anywhere in the bible itself. All these are inventions from your blind minds.
And now, something that profits nothing becomes a necessity, according to the same person? How impertinent! In tagalog, you can also be called, ‘MAKULIT’!
…he that wavereth is like wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
James 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
…let him not think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
James 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
…unstable.
James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
Brethrens, beware!
2. The apostle Paul wrote, “2 Corinthians 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.”
I thank God because of Bro. Eli, for opening our minds with God’s help for us not to be ignorant of satan’s devices. We may make mistakes in our lives, but never are we ignorant of satan’s devices like these.
Now I imagine the more how vast the ‘wrestling match’ really is.
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Brothers and Sisters in faith,
a. according the apostle Paul, “bear with him”.
2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
b. according to the apostle James, ” count it all joy…it worketh patience…that ye may be perfect…”
James 1:2 ¶My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
To bro. in absolute lies William,
Sorry to say this, but you’re digging your own GRAVE with your IGNORANCE and with the help of of your WRONG PERCEPTION and UNBIBLICAL OBSERVATION. When your reading the Bible, please… PLEASE!!!!! be guided with this Biblical priinciple:
ISAIAHS 34:16 – Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.
I Cor 4:6 -And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
Do you agree with the verses?
When you raised a question… get the answer from the books. Not your own perception or conclusions and reasoning. Maliligaw ka. And it is showing. The verse is crystal clear SEEK YE OUT OF THE BOOK OF THE LORD. Don’t ADD nor SUBTRACT!
You’re reading the Bible and yet you don’t like to follow the instructions written on it. Reading in VAIN!
Do yu know the reason why you don’t understand the letters of St. Paul! It was not addressed to you. Pero pinakialaman mo… tapos ITSINISMIS mo at kung anu-ano na ang ikinuwento mo!!!! Tsk Tsk Tsk. You have to remember that the letter of St Paul was adressed to the Members of the Church of Christ! We understand the letters of St. Paul.
MATAKOT KA NAMAN!!!! Attend our CHURCH doctrines and services AND YOU WILL REALIZED FOR YOURSELVES THAT ALL YOUR POSTS HERE ARE GARBAGE! We CHALLENGED YOU. O baka naduduwag ka that TRUTH WILL OUT?
To William,
1. You said, “HIs message came from the direct revelation of his Jesus Christ. … It means, he has no need of learning from any human being, not even from the apostles, he is completely independent, that is the reason why in his own understanding He can even correct any of the apostles even Peter himself.”
What is wrong with that? You must really be a brother in absolute fantasy and desolation. If you are a brother at all.
a. Think of Moses for a second. From Whom did he receive the commandments for all Israel, with the statutes and judgements? Was it from any human being?
Malachi 4:4 ¶Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
It was from the Lord of hosts in reference to the previous verse.
Should I give another verse to prove that? Eat this!
Deuteronomy 29:1 ¶These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.
You may say, from an angel. But, is an angel a human being? Though I know of a human being who himself and his ignorant members call an angel just because they believe that he is a messenger. How silly! I am sure that all my true brothers and sisters know who I am refering to. I just don’t know with you.
b. Now, when the apostle Paul confided the same, would there be anything wrong? Nothing unless you have tried and proven it to be otherwise, which you are painstakingly doing but failing as expected.
What do you have against the Lord if He wills to reveal His words to His chosen vessel like the apostle Paul?
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Are you now better than the Lord for you to doubt the apostle Paul? God forbid!
Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
To William,
You said, ““The flesh profits nothing” meaning from Jesus’ viewpoint (in contrast to St. Paul’ viewpoint), the flesh, his flesh with its blood gains nothing for anyone .”
Ha? Don’t you know that the Lord Jesus Christ purchased the Church of God with His own blood or are you just too blind to see? Are you now saying also that it profits nothing?
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Well, I notice that you doubt the apostle Paul, which should make you better-knowing than him. But really, are you? God forbid!
TO: William
You said the following:
“If the Church is His body in essence, and gave his physical body to redeem it. Therefore it means that his physical body (flesh) is so important right? But in John 6: 63 we read, let me quote:”
“THE SPIRIT IS THAT WHICH MAKES ALIVE, THE FLESH FROFITS NOTHING, THE WORDS THAT WHICH I HAVE SPOKEN TO YOU ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE.”” …”The flesh profits nothing he said”.”
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I think you just misunderstand the whole matter.
The flesh that our Lord Jesus Christ mean is our good works or righteous works and that spirit which make alive is a faith, mercy and justice.
If you refer this to the interpretation of Saint Paul he said the following;
“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.” (Galatians 2:16)
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, and faith” (Galatians 5:22)
1Tm:3:15: But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
So the spirit(faith) will make alive the flesh(good works) in order to be called a living soul.
As a soul is composed of spirit and a flesh and our GOD is a living GOD “He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.” (Matthew 12:27)
A living soul should worship of the living GOD. Believest thou this?
And the truth is the body. Believest thou this?
And the body has many members. Believest thou this?
And the church is a body. Believest thou this?
Therefore,
“But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.” (John 4:23)
EYES
Brothers, and sisters,
Peace!
YOu wrote: You said, “The flesh profits nothing” meaning from Jesus’ viewpoint (in contrast to St. Paul’ viewpoint), the flesh, his flesh with its blood gains nothing for anyone .” citing:
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.That is just your added conclusion. Notice the verse again. Did He say, “My flesh profiteth nothing”? No!In verse 51, He said the bread that He will give
is His flesh. Will He give something that profiteth nothing? In fact, that flesh thatHe will give is FOR THE LIFE OF THE WORLD.
my response: Brother, NO need to pinpoint “MY flesh” because it is obvious that He was referring to his flesh as metaphor taking the context of the whole scenario. Re-read it again (JOhn 6: 53-63) b’coz you took it literally, you read the narration as it is like a gradeschool student, and thus failing to grasp the spiritual implication of his message. Jesus was only talking to his body as metaphor, (John 6:53-58)
In verse 60 we read: “THIS IS A HARD SAYING, WHO CAN HEAR IT? (so it must not be taken as it is)
and so in John 6: 61 where the Jews including his disciples were offended and they grumbled but Jesus said in verse 61 ” ” now Jesus having known in himself that his disciples murmur concerning this, he said to them: “Does this stumble you? verse 62 what if you beheld the son of man coming down from where he was formerly? verse 63 THE SPIRIT IS THAT WHICH MAKES ALIVE, THE FLESH FROFITS NOTHING, THE WORDS THAT WHICH I
HAVE SPOKEN TO YOU ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE.” . So taking
the essence of his message (not literally)
It is the words, not the flesh and blood that delivered them, that one must eat and drink to receive eternal life.
Is it really the word that can deliver us to receive eternal life? Yes! He clarified it in John 5: 24 when he said let me quote:
“Truly truly i say to you that the one hearing my word and believing the one having sent me has eternal life, and does not come into JUDGEMENT but is moved out of death into life”
IT constitute the living bread and it is the true manna from heaven and thus when we do that, the Holy spirit comes into us with the Word, the two are inseparable, Eternal life is the result we are born from above. Is it difficult to understand? why can’t you hear the essence of the message of Jesus?
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YOu wrote: Now, did He really give His flesh, for the life of the world? We all know that He was crucified. Don’t we? Was it the spirit that was nailed to the cross? Of course, not! It has no flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). It was the body, the flesh, that was nailed. You can’t
deny that. Can you?
my response: Yes, He was crucified! Yes, It was the body indeed. And he died ahead of us and not instead of us. Yes I know you’re conditioned to believe that Jesus is the
substitute, that he suffered for our sins so that we do not have to suffer for them, that the cross of Jesus was a once-and-for-all event. Well, you’re absolutely mistaken my brother, that is the BAD NEWS that’s not the message of
Jesus and his Father. Jesus clearly emphasized- he said
it himself so to speak that each of us has our own cross to bear, everyone of us must takes it up and follow him (this is the Good NEWS).
“Whoever does not bear HIS OWN CROSS and come after me cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:27)
So everyone has his own cross to bear, We must not believe the “deceiver” who said in his epistle we are “Crucified with Christ” simply because there were only 2 men that were crucified with Jesus, and only one of them was redeemed , the one who repented hated his life and HAD NO DESIRE TO SAVE IT (John 12:25).YOu see, Jesus- being the expiator of our sins seemed to be a perfect fit for those who never give much attention to the uttered words of Jesus but by hearing Jesus we learn that God would forgive sins through simple repentance and confession. It is sad to imagine that since the time of the so called first christian in antioch until now the true prescription for eternal life as uttered by Jesus which is simple and logical has been ignored
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YOu wrote: You said, ” Brother, the flesh really profits nothing…”and added, ” the flesh is only the vehicle, a necessity.”Look at you! I thought you said the flesh really profits nothing. Now, the flesh is a necessity? And it is only a vehicle?
my response: Brother, by cutting the writer’s article into pieces, it lost the essence of the message and the aftermath is a disaster, the author’s intention is now contaminated, this
usually happens when the mind start with a conclusion before reading. YOu see, there is a common saying that says : “reading without understanding is like an eating without digesting, it will lead to constipation.”
Kindly consider the intention of the writer:
“the flesh profits nothing” IN SALVATION, in gaining eternal life. because the author knows that Jesus came to teach, to give the word, to show the way and not to die as an atoning bloody sacrifice to save the world from its sins. and that “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son (not for atoning sacrifice but to show us the way ) that Whoever believes in him (His saying or teachings from his Father) should not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16) Because it is the spirit (“Words”) that gives life THE FLESH IS OF NO AVAIL THE WORDS THAT I HAVE SPOKEN TO YOU ARE SPIRIT IN LIFE (his words only not Paul’s words) (John 6:63)
In short the writer’s know that to receive his word is to drink of the living water, and this is the gift of God and
receiving that word and believing it. So from that viewpoint Jesus flesh profits nothing in attaining eternal life.
(on the contrary from your viewpoint (christendom) his flesh is an atoning sacrifice so it is absolutely important). do you get the intention?
“the flesh is a necessity and it is only a vehicle”, the author’s intention in this particular sentence is that, Before, IN the light of the Bible, God delivered his message in revelation and in dreams to the prophets of old time And approx 2000 years ago God personally conveyed his message thru his son by incarnating into the world of senses, the “Word” made flesh. The body is a necessity in a sense that it was used as a vehicle.
See? Different scenario and intention, What you did- you mixed it up, and therefore you saw it as something contradictory, meaning you look at it not in its proper place as intended by the writer and that is your problem. You put your thought inside the thought of the writer,and that should not be the case.
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You wrote: What is wrong with that (REVELATION)? You must really be a brother in absolute fantasy and desolation. If you are a brother at all.a. Think of Moses for a second. From Whom did he receive the commandments for all Israel, with the statutes and judgements? Was it from any human being?
my response: Brother, there is nothing wrong in receiving revelation from God, the problem is your faulty understanding of the intention of the writer in comment # 29. And here is the writer’s intention for your own benefit.
” he has no need of learning from any human being, not even from the apostles, he is completely independent, that is the reason why in his own understanding he can even correct any of the apostles even Peter himself” b’coz in some occasion he said: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.” (1 Corinthians( 6:12 .) so would you
still think that Paul recognized the authority of Peter and the brethen? And it is Lawful for him not to! why? Because according to him let me quote again: “For I neither
received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.” (Galatians 1:12) so in short what ever intention of St. Paul. must be accepted thoroughly (without any question nor hesitation) by anyone (including the apostles)because according to him it is from God directly. In short He has now become an authority! being an apostle also of christ,( which is not true.) Is it clear now? Hope so!
your brother in absolute reality,
william
Brothers and sisters,
Peace!
You wrote: The fact that the apostle Peter called the apostle Paul, brother, should end yourhallucinations. Not even their teachings contradict. If there is, tell us.
my response: Brother, st. Paul upraids peter in public. He called st. Peter for being double faced, and so they’are in conflict. He also categorized Peter as misguided apostle when he said: ” I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel ” ( Galatian 2:14), and in another occasion St. Paul said: ” I labored more abundantly than they (apostles including Peter of course) all” (I corinthians 15:10) as if Peter et. al are lazy. or in other words from the viewpoint of st. Paul those apostles WHO WERE CHOSEN BY JESUS HIMSELF most especially Peter who lived, preached, ate, and drank with him (Jesus) for few years are all, lazy, misguided and were not able to see the truth of Jesus’ message. He is actually debasing the apostles of Jesus christ, and by talking ill of the apostles and other brethen, in a way, st. paul is insulting Jesus Christ. Is this what you called
hallucination? St. paul is in conflict within himself and with the apostles.. Is he not? If you are Peter will you commend or endorse him? Think about it.
another one, St. Paul wrote to the his church in corinthians he said let me quote:
“ I think that I am not in the least inferior to these superlative apostles. Even if I am unskilled in speaking, I am not in knowledge; in every way we have made this plain to you in all things (II Corinthians 11:4-6) Let no man think me a fool; if
otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little. That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also. . . . Are they Hebrews? So amI. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? So am I. Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labors more abundant, in stripes
above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. . . . In journeying often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by my own countrymen . . . in perils among false brethren; In weariness and painfulness, in watching often,
in hunger and thirst, in fasting often, in cold and nakedness. . . . If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities. . . . In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city . . . with a garrison,
desirous to apprehend me: And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands. It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. . . . For though
I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I for bear, lest any man think of me above what he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. . .
. in nothing am I behind the very chiefest of the apostles, though I be nothing. . . . For what is it wherein ye were inferior to other churches, except it be that I myself
was not burdensome to you? Forgive me this wrong”( II Corinthians 11:16-12:19.)
So here there is evidence in Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians that others did not accept his apostleship. This may have included the Twelve. Why?
Here are some clues:
“Am I not an apostle?” (because He knew They’re the real apostles)
“Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?”(because He knew that they walked, eat and chatted with Jesus)
“If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you” (Yes, he was not an apostles to them , they realized
it later and thus they (even) the very elect were deceived as prophecied by Jesus)
for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord (I Corinthians 9:1,2).” (Yes, for his church
– for all his comrade and convert he was an apostle.)
And Who are the “others” OR THE SUPERLATIVE APOSTLES? to whom he is not an apostle?
Is it not most likely those whom he designates “the other apostles,” Peter, and James the righteous the brother of the Lord, with whom he immediately continues to compare his practices? At the very least, they would be identified with the other disciples at Corinth who, under the influence of Peter, James and the Twelve, were challenging Paul’s claim to
be an apostle. Like a man who feels threatened and who operates from a position of weakness, Paul asserted his calling at the beginning of all his letters except those to
the Philippians, the Thessalonians, and Philemon. And remember Jesus said: “Whoever exalts himself will be humbled”(Matthew 23:12).
Yes, St. Paul is indeed unfaithful to the law, While, Moses, King Solomon, King David and the prophets, Jesus , Peter and the brethen are not.
Let us hear their conversation:
Paul: “All under the Old Testament law were under a curse (Galatians 3:10)
Moses: Paul, only if they disobeyed. Those who obeyed were under a blessing. (Deuteronomy 7:11-13; 11:26, 27,; 30:19, 20; Psalms 24:3-5)
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Paul: The Old Testament law was the “ministration of condemnation” (2 Corinthians 3:9).The Old Testament law was the “law of sin and death,” while the “law of life” is in Christ (Romans 8:2)
King Solomon and Moses: Hey Paul! you contradicted our writings kindly re-read : Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; And the law is light; And reproofs of instruction are the way of life: Proverbs 13:14 The law of the wise is a fountain of life, That one may depart from the snares of death. And Deuteronomy 30:19, 20: I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before thee
life and death, the blessing and the curse: therefore choose life, that thou mayest live, thou and thy seed; to love Yahweh thy God, to obey his voice, and to cleaveunto him; for he is thy life, and the length of thy days; that thou mayest dwell
in the land which Yahweh sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob,
to give them.
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Paul: Those claiming to be justified by the law are fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4).
Jesus: Paul!, Listen, Those claiming to be justified without the law have no salvation. (Matthew 19:17-19)
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Paul: The law made nothing perfect (Hebrews 7:19).
Jesus: Paul!, My cousin, John the Baptist, the greatest man the law could produce, was less than the least under the Gospel (Matthew 11:11).
A guy from this forum: Ha? ala ba perfect? Di ba perfect si Job ? ah baka naman di cia sakop ng Law.
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Paul: “Only Christ makes us free. The law is a yoke of bondage” (Galatians 5:1)
Isaiah and Zechariah: Paul, “Messiah” will make us free from the bondage of the tyrannical and wicked, God-hating, heathen nations, but he will bring us and all
mankind to live under the Law of God (Isaiah 2:4; Zechariah 8:23; 14:16-19)
And Lastly Jesus said:
“Think not that I am come to DESTROY THE LAW, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, BUT TO FULFUILL. For verily I say unto you, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, one jot or
one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:17-19) so St. Paul shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven!
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YOu wrote: What do you have against the Lord if He wills to reveal His words to His chosen vessel
like the apostle Paul?
my respons: Brother, St. Paul nullified the “Law” (old covenant), by The Law, it means the entire legal canon established by the Pentateuch and embodied in Judaism and very dear to Moses and Jesus himself spoke constantly of fulfilling the Law, honoring the Law, and doing the greater part of the Law, even extending to the Law the fact that it PROPHECIED ABOUT HIM. Aside from that we all know that Jesus Christ wait hundreds of thousands of years and came approximately 2000 years ago, now why preach a law (the old covenants or the law of the prophets) that is going to be
thrown out the window in only a couple of years by Paul? And
Why not preach such a doctrine himself while he is still among his apostles instead of waiting to first mention it to Paul in a vision after his death? And Why to Paul and not the Direct disciples such as Peter and John? Why? You see, if there is something that must be changed It logically follows that it would be given to his apostles, because they are still alive during those time and they were choosen personally by Jesus (prepared by the Father) for him. so if there is any revelation, surely it will be given to them not to any stranger. do you get the point?
Jesus said it very clearly, “Truly, truly, I say unto you he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, is a thief and a robber (He was never choosen as one of the 12); but he who enters by the door is
the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens; the sheep hear his voice and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger (that man is stranger to Jesus. they never met) they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers” (john 10:1-5)
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Antonio wrote: NOTICED THAT YOU TWISTED A LOT OF VERSES IN THE BIBLE.
my response: Which verses I twisted? tell me at least give me one, so I can explain. but allow me to give you 2 examples of how St. Paul misused the Old testament in order to prove his claim.
He said let me quote:
“In the law it is written, “By men of strange tonques and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people and even then they will not listen to me,says the Lord” (I Cor. 14:21)
Now let us examine the one he quoted from Isaiah
“For with stammering lips and another tonque will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to restand this is the refreshing and yet they would not hear. (Isa. 28:11-12)
Now can you see the difference?
So what your ringleader did he changes the “person” of the verb, changes the time,and uses the scripture in a context totally different than its original purpose.
But see the deception and TAKE NOTE he said “It is written” just to get a J-u-s-t-i-f-ic-a-t-i-o-n but in essence what is written in Isaiah has a different context.
Another one, let us have a careful look on his letter to the Corinthians particularly in II Cor 3:7-13 let me quote:
“Now if the dispensation of death, carved in letters of stone, came with such splendor that the Israelites could not look at Moses’ face because of its brightness, fading as this was…. Indeed, in this case, what once had splendor has come to have no splendor at all… Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not see the end of the fading splendor.”
Now let us read Exodus 34:29-35 let me quote:
“When Moses came down from Mount Sinai, with the two tablets of the testimony in his hand as he came down from the mountain, Moses did not know that the skin of his face
shone because he had been speaking with God. And when Aaron and all the people of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone, and they were afraid to come near him…And when Moses had finished speaking with them, he put a veil on his face; but whenever Moses went in before the Lord to speak with him, he took the veil off, until he came out…”
Here antonio a reader with an average I. Q and 20/20 angle of vision knows that st. Paul has misused God’s Holy Scripture . This is not what the story in Exodus relates to
us, nor is the meaning that Paul gives to it the truth. Moses’ face was lit with a light that came from speaking with God! The ‘dispensation of death’ Paul speaks of is the, Ten
Commandments, and he dares to say that it is fading, that God’s work is temporary and incomplete? Those are his words, it must be his intent.Exodus 34:29-35, tells us that the
face of Moses shone when he came down from Mount Sinai. In order not to frighten the people, he put a veil on his face. This brightness soon faded. Paul sees this as a sign
that although the old covenant was God’s, it has now been, “…superseded by the greater and permanent order of the new covenant…”
YOU see, Even his famous quote “There is no righteous, No not one! is badly twisted taken from where it is written.
I thought he said : he renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways; we refuse to practice cunning or to TAMPER with God’s word…” (II Corinthians 4:2)
your brother in absolute reality,
william
Brother,
Peace!
YOu wrote: Do yu know the reason why you don’t understand the letters of St. Paul! It was not addressed to you. Pero pinakialaman mo… tapos ITSINISMIS mo at kung anu-ano na ang ikinuwento mo!!!! Tsk Tsk Tsk. You have to remember that the letter of St Paul was adressed to the Members of the Church of Christ! We understand the letters of St. Paul.
MATAKOT KA NAMAN!!!! Attend our CHURCH doctrines and services AND YOU WILL REALIZEDFOR YOURSELVES THAT ALL YOUR POSTS HERE ARE GARBAGE! We CHALLENGED YOU. O baka naduduwag ka that TRUTH WILL OUT?
my response: Bro. dominic, let us not provoke any unhealthy discussion in this forum. Let us deal the issues in gentleman’s way. let us not make this forum a room for primitive people, a room of swine and dogs. And kindly Do not consider me as the shadow of your past, because the shadow of my past is YOU-your reality nowadays.
When St. Paul talked ill of the apostles you did not complain, when st. paul mentioned that He saw that they (apostles) walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel ” ( Galatian 2:14). You never ask yourself why he acted that way or to question him why he uttered such an insulting word to the Real Apostles chosen by Jesus Christ. Di mo ba gets? na si Kristo ang tinamaan ng kanyang paratang? And when someone (in defense) of the brethen talked against your self-proclaimed apostles, you are barking2x in all direction. So please! thank you!
your brother in absolute reality,
william
Brother,
Peace!
YOu wrote: think you just misunderstand the whole matter.
The flesh that our Lord Jesus Christ mean is our good works or righteous works and that spirit which make alive is a faith, mercy and justice.If you refer this to the interpretation of Saint Paul he said the following; (# 46)
“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith
of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.” (Galatians 2:16)
my response: Brother, I think it is St. paul who misunderstood the whole matter. His interpretation
is faulty and not within the teachings of the Prophets and Jesus (Matthew 19:17-19 -keep the commandments)
Let us try to see and study how Paul ended up with his faulty doctrine about this matter.
St. Paul paired/changed the “LAW ” of the living Jesus with “GRACE”, He also paired/changed “Work” with “FAITH”.
In the book of Romans, Paul goes on to try and drive home his picture of grace versus works with more NON-SENSICAL and NON-SCRIPTURAL logic.And to prove this point, let us see whether he has support from the OT – let me quote:
So the lord said, “ I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I regret that I have made them” But Noah found GRACE in the eyes of the Lord. This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a JUST man perfect in his generations. NOAH WALKED WITH GOD” ( Genesis 6:7-9)
Then the Lord said to Noah, “Come into the Ark, you and all your household, BECAUSE I have seen that YOU are RIGHTEOUS before ME in this generations
(Genesis 7:1)
Meaning no one else on earth found grace or mercy from God except one man and his family because HE was JUST and RIGHTEOUS! Contrary to Paul’s doctrine being beneficiary of God’s grace has EVERYTHING to do with works.
Grace and works are not mutually exclusive. In God’s view they are tied to one another. For the Lord God is a sun and shield; the Lord will give GRACE and glory; NO GOOD THING
WILL HE WITHOLD FROM THOSE WHO WALK UPRIGHTLY. (Psalm 84:11)
“ SHOWING MERCY to thousands, TO THOSE WHO LOVE ME AND KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS”
(Exodus 20:6)
“But the MERCY of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting ON THOSE WHO FEAR HIM, and HIS righteousness to children’s children, TO SUCH ASKEEP HIS COVENANT, AND TO
THOSE WHO REMEMBER HIS COMMANDMENTS TO DO THEM (Psalm 103: 17-18)
Thus , Paul’s concept of the separation of grace and work is as UNSCRIPTURAL as it can possibly be. Absolutely nothing concerning grace and law has changed since the Living Jesus. Or Adam for that matter. Men lived before living Jesus were no less treated to God’s wonderful grace, and no man today is
under no less obligation to obey God.
your brother in absolute reality,
william
To William,
Before I begin answering your ignorance, let me just ask you, have you read Bro. Eli’s recent post entitled, “Ignorant of his own ignorance”? If not yet, I suggest you do first.
But anyways:
1. You said, “my response: Brother, NO need to pinpoint “MY flesh” because it is obvious that He was referring to his flesh as metaphor taking the context of the whole scenario. Re-read it again (JOhn 6: 53-63) b’coz you took it literally, you read the narration as it is like a gradeschool student, and thus failing to grasp the spiritual implication of his message. Jesus was only talking to his body as metaphor, (John 6:53-58) ”
You started with verse 53. Read verse 51. If there was no need to pinpoint “My flesh”, why did He pinpoint it in verse 51? I maybe a gradeschool, but you seem to be someone who uses milk, a baby, in understanding.
2. You said, “So everyone has his own cross to bear, We must not believe the “deceiver” who said in his epistle we are “Crucified with Christ” simply because there were only 2 men that were crucified with Jesus, and only one of them was redeemed , the one who repented hated his life and HAD NO DESIRE TO SAVE IT (John 12:25).”
Look who’s taking it literally now. You are starting to make me laugh. How about when the Lord Jesus Christ said:
Mark 10:39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:
If we ought to be christians, we shall also indeed drink of the cup that He drink of. I wonder if you know what that cup is. But you do not seem to want to take part with that. Can’t you see the connection?
3. You said, “YOu see, Jesus- being the expiator of our sins seemed to be a perfect fit for those who never give much attention to the uttered words of Jesus but by hearing Jesus we learn that God would forgive sins through simple repentance and confession.”
I can remember two proponents of the word ‘simple’. And they always make me laugh. This is not simple. You cannot do it on your own. Can you?
Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
That is of course if you are really a man, in its real essence, which I doubt when I found contradictions with what you are saying, amazingly all in the same setting.
4. You said, “my response: Brother, by cutting the writer’s article into pieces, it lost the essence of the message and the aftermath is a disaster, the author’s intention is now contaminated, this usually happens when the mind start with a conclusion before reading. YOu see, there is a common saying that says : “reading without understanding is like an eating without digesting, it will lead to constipation.””
Constipation is actually what you are experiencing since you accepted the things that you are trying to prove here. If you are really trying to prove that you are right, there should not be found any contradictions with what you are saying.
Since when did something that profits nothing become a necessity? Only when you opened your mouth. And imagine affixing the word ‘only’ to that something which is a necessity! How impertinent!
5. You said, “You put your thought inside the thought of the writer,and that should not be the case.”
I am sorry, I decline to do so. I don’t want to be infected.
6. You said, “” he has no need of learning from any human being, not even from the apostles, he is completely independent, that is the reason why in his own understanding he can even correct any of the apostles even Peter himself” b’coz in some occasion…”
Consider Moses again. Did he also need learning from any human being? No! What is wrong with it then? Even you, if you received revelations from God like Moses and the apostle Paul, would you still need to learn from any man? Is man now better than God? God forbid!
What you can do however is to try that man who is claiming the same thing, which again what you are doing but failing to disprove – in your mind maybe.
What is wrong if Paul corrected Peter, when it is Peter who said it himself that in Paul’s epistles, according to the wisdom given to him, there are some things hard to be understood?
I think you better reconsider. Why? Did you know what happened to Aaron and Miriam when they spoke against Moses? If not, I suggest that you read:
Numbers 12:1-16
7. You said, “he said: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.” (1 Corinthians( 6:12 .) so would you still think that Paul recognized the authority of Peter and the brethen? And it is Lawful for him not to!”
You jumped into conclusion hastily again. The verse you gave says:
1 Corinthians 6:12 ¶All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
The ‘any’ there, which you again concluded to include Peter, means those ‘all things’ that he mentioned. Be careful. He did not say, ‘anyone’. Did he? That is in KJV.
So you will understand it clearly, let me show it to you in tagalog:
” Ang lahat ng mga bagay para sa akin ay matuwid; ” ngunit hindi ang lahat ng mga bagay ay makakatulong. ” Ang lahat ng mga bagay ay para sa akin ay matuwid, ” ngunit hindi ako paaalipin sa anuman.
I Mga Taga-Corinto 6:12
Ang Bagong Ang Biblia
In fact, in ESV, it says ‘anything’
12 All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be enslaved by anything.
Further in ISV:
12Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is helpful. Everything is permissible for me, but I will not allow anything to control me
8. What you are doing is very dangerous. Slow down!
To William,
1. You said, “St. paul is in conflict within himself and with the apostles.. Is he not? If you are Peter will you commend or endorse him? Think about it.”
I have thought about it and you are really making me laugh now. The apostle Paul was not in conflict with himself and with the other apostles. You are just creating a feud between them in your head.
If I am Peter, I would commend and and endorse him also, including Barnabas, as what the apostle Peter, together with John, and James really did. You cited Gal 2:14. Maybe you forgot to read or you just ignored verse 9 just to prolong your hallucinations.
Galatians 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. KJV
In ISV:
9So when James, Cephas, and John (who were reputed to be leaders) recognized the grace that had been given me, they gave Barnabas and me the right hand of fellowship, agreeing that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
In ESV:
9and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
Who do you think is Cephas there? Isn’t it Peter? Don’t you remember the nursery rhyme, ‘Peter, James, and John, on a sailboat fishing…’ I do. Oh well, I forgot, you are still a babe.
You’re like creating your own monster and fighting it.
2. You said, “and in another occasion St. Paul said: ” I labored more abundantly than they (apostles including Peter of course) all” (I corinthians 15:10) as if Peter et. al are lazy. or in other words from the viewpoint of st. Paul those apostles WHO WERE CHOSEN BY JESUS HIMSELF most especially Peter who lived, preached, ate, and drank with him (Jesus) for few years are all, lazy, misguided and were not able to see the truth of Jesus’ message. ” citing:
1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
a. Again, that is your hasty conclusion. He never meant it like what you mean. What he said was true, as evidence by what he wrote to Timothy to preach the word in season and out of season.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
b. But never did he meant that the other apostles are lazy, misguided and unable to see the truth in Jesus’ message. He just receive abundant revelations above measure, which give him the greater responsibility.
2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
Which again, Peter confirmed, saying that according to the wisdom given to Paul, in his epistles, there are some things hard to be understood. (2 Pet 3:15).
c. And one thing, was it really Paul himself who laboured? Read again the verse, which you cited. It was the grace of God that was with him.
Brother,
Peace!
you wrote: You people are really like that.
my response: Because we are not literalist christian
you wrote: When the bible says, “it is impossible for God to lie”, you say, “there is nothing impossible with God”.
my response: simply b’coz, we know that It is HIS nature not to lie and thus it should not be taken as HIS limitation or imposibility on HIS part, in essnce it is in the Bible also
you wrote: : even adding that He is omnipotent. When the bible mentions something that neither came to His mind.
my response: simply b’coz you interpreted it literally, it is only a figurative language on HIS part. His message reflects on the audience and not on HIM, its for them to realized that what they did is not in accordance to HIS will. And I already explained it in length in the light of the Bible coupled with a slice of reasoning.
you wrote: you say, “He is omniscient”. And when the bible mentions a place where God dwelleth not, you say, “He is omnipresent”. These words cannot even be found anywhere in the bible itself. All these are inventions from your blind minds.
my response: The problem is your faulty understanding of ACTS 17, you took it as it is, failing to absorb the essence of the narration, and also was already explained fully with biblical support plus another slice of logic and reasoning. Omniscience as HIS attribue is not an invention. It is also in the Bible but of course again you failed to notice it for the hardness of your heart.
your brother in absolute reality,
william
To William,
You have to remember that the apostles are humans who may sin and commit mistakes.
1 John 1:8 ¶If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If Paul, who received abundance of revelations as he said (2 Cor 12:7), and confirmed by Peter (2 Pet 3:15-16), corrected them, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Because, according to the apostle James:
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
And of course, no less than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, who know the apostles better than the apostles themselves, even Peter, did the same to them for so many times, if you really have read the bible in its entirety.
So, when Paul, who received revelations from the Lord, according to himself, as confirmed by Peter, corrected the apostles, there is totally nothing wrong with that.
Wiiliam post # 10 again…
Consider the ff:
If the Church is His body in essence, and gave his physical body to redeem it. Therefore it means that his physical body (flesh) is so important right? But in John 6: 63 we read, let me quote:
“THE SPIRIT IS THAT WHICH MAKES ALIVE, THE FLESH FROFITS NOTHING, THE WORDS THAT WHICH I HAVE SPOKEN TO YOU ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE.”” …”The flesh profits nothing he said”. First part of his comment..
He said : “The flesh profits nothing” meaning from Jesus’ viewpoint (in contrast to St. Paul’ viewpoint), the flesh, his flesh with its blood gains nothing for anyone . Is flesh important or not? if not, then how is it possible to redeem your so called church by his flesh? Last part of his comment..
William showing that flesh profit nothing… and Jesus Christ tantamount contradicting his own self because He was crucified and sacrifice His own body ( flesh ) for the salvation of the Church. And Saint paul can tell to Jesus you done nothing because your flesh profit nothing…I think william is a direct anti Christ and he believe since the beginning of forums in this website more than to Saint Paul. But you must realize that teaching of Saint Paul comes from God the Father and His son Jesus Christ..
And he always insisted it is the “word” the body is the important, Did anyone in this forum tell that it is not important? I’m just repeating this..Romans 8:28 all of the things, including you even you are against Jesus Christ or Saint Paul avid fan it is no matter anyway, you read all writings in this forum.,,we all know that the word dwell in the body. But you are mixing this the flesh of human like us and body ( flesh ) of Jesus Christ that crucified in the cross, but it was answer clearly enough for you? By bro. eli showing your ignorance of it…
The flesh profits nothing is the statement that put you into ditch, your mixed up making so long statement but the end make self confusion to your own self which one is seperated from the other, which one is white or black..your showing that your intelligent enough to show that we are wrong but you are wrong if your intelligent,, none of the wicked shall understand,,Daniel 12:9-10, look at yourself in the mirror and you can say to your self am I doing good things? if you can answer it to you consience ..but if you humble yourself to God it’s not yet over, there is still hope for everyone who do care to learn things from above…
TO: William
You stated:
St. Paul paired/changed the “LAW ” of the living Jesus with “GRACE”, He also paired/changed “Work” with “FAITH”.
——————————————————————————-
Let me start in this way:
Let 9 is our goal/desired number that we should obtained for our salvation.
If Saint Peter interpreted that 5 + 4 = 9, then the goal is obtain.
If Saint James interpreted that 6 + 3 = 9, then we still obtain the goal.
How about if Saint Paul will interpreted in this way:
3 to the power 2 is equal to 9, are you going to blame Saint Paul and accussed him as arrogant because of his classic interpretation?
But 3 x 3 = 9 also?
Actually, grace was first acquire in the person of Abraham and this grace will become righteous during his time through faith by testing his child as an offer. ( This is a face to face talk between GOD and Abraham)
But grace will come because of work.
And this grace descend in the children of children of Abraham through the Ten Commandments(HOREB COVENANT).
But the descendants of Abraham thought the horeb covenant as a commandment.
To follow the commandment leads to righteousness and to disobey on it leads to hatred.
As righteousness is a good works.
And that’s why Jesus Christ was sent to preach the TRUTH (New Testamant).
What is the TRUTH?
The TRUTH is righteousness will not justified without faith, mercy, and justice which is the weighter matter of the law.
How to obtain the TRUTH?
First you have to believed and be babtist by water immersion as a symbol of his blood to clean your sins in the past and follow the LOVE COVENANT between you and our lord Jesus Chist (This is a face to face talk between Jesus Christ and YOU)
What is this LOVE COVENANT? — This is a law in the new testament which has a spirit.
Why that law or covenant has a spirit?
In the old testament: Respect thou father and mother.
In new testament: Respect thou father, mother, neighbour and enemies.
See if you look the other sample of the laws you could find a different between that two laws and these is faith, mercy , and justice.
and why love covenant? — because Jesus christ intention that you will receive his new covenant by loving it not by means of command.
Because love covenant leads to conscience.
Here is a sample:
A care giver will feed your old mother because he is paid and has an order to do so. ( But what if you don’t paid her or not commanding her, can it be lead to hatred?)
A son will feed her old mother because it is needed and without paid. ( But what if the son will not feed his mother, it can’t be because he feel conscience)
And sins is no more a sins because through conscience your thought will govern you to do right rather than wrong.
And the new covenant will follow truly because of love like a son feeding his old mother.
But can we fall in love the new covenant? —-Yes by using Kenny Rogers Song.
” I learn whats love about by loving you through the Years”
( Too long to narrate this area below )
So the spirit(faith) will make alive the flesh(good works) in order to be called a living soul.
As a soul is composed of spirit and a flesh and our GOD is a living GOD “He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.” (Matthew 12:27)
A living soul should worship of the living GOD. Believest thou this?
And the truth is the body. Believest thou this?
And the body has many members(living soul). Believest thou this?
And the church is a body. Believest thou this?
Therefore,
“But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.” (John 4:23)
EYES
TO: William
You stated the following:
You wrote: the owner of that island which is a name called Jesus Christ asking you;How much life do you save?And that’s why the CHURCH is needed.
I Agree, If that is indeed pertains to the “Ekklesia” or belonging to the “little flocks” of Jesus. But what if that Church is not of Jesus but used the word Jesus Christ only in name in order to deceive many including the very elect? I think it is stupidity to stay there, Right?
——————————————————————————
Yes, MCGI (known as ADD) is a real Ekklesia belonging to the “little flocks” of Jesus Christ. WHY?
Because the law or love covenant that govern of this CHURCH is the law of yesterday, today and tomorrow (cannot be added nor subtracted)
Jn:17:11: And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Jn:17:18: As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
Jn:17:20: Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Jn:17:22: And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
EYES
Brother,
Peace!
You wrote: What is wrong if Paul corrected Peter, when it is Peter who said it himself that in Paul’s epistles, according to the wisdom given to him, there are some things hard to be understood have thought about it and you are really making me laugh now. The apostle Paul was not in conflict with himself and with the other apostles. You are just creating a feud between them in your head.
my response: Brother, they are indeed in conflict. No doubt! if not, then, He will not upraid peter in public for being
double face. He will not say that Peter walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel ” ( Galatian 2:14) nor will he say that He labored more abundantly then peter (I corinthians 15:10). Remember st. Paul wrote it. To say that He is not in conflict with Peter by his assertions, is the same as this- somebody is punching you and yet you are still keep on smiling. Well, an open minded member of ADD (if there is) can see the truth and bearing of this assertion, which was written by Paul himself.
——————————————————————————-
YOU wrote: But never did he meant that the other apostles are lazy, misguided and unable to see the truth in Jesus’ message. He just receive abundant revelations above
measure,which give him the greater responsibility.
my response: St. Paul said it clearly : “I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel ” ( Galatian 2:14). If the apostles are not walking uprightly in the truth of the gospel, meaning that they are unable to see the truth of Jesus’ message, they are misguided so to speak. Are they not?
St. Paul also said very clearly : ” I labored more abundantly than they (apostles) all. If St. paul labored more abundantly than them, then it logically follows that the apostles are not doing their best and need to work harder to catch up what St. paul is doing who is laboring more abundantly, it only proves that the apostles are lazy. are they not? Again, an open minded member of ADD (if there is) can see the truth and bearing of of this assertion, which was written
by Paul himself.
——————————————————————————-
You wrote: the apostles are human so they commit mistakes
My response: It is true! but it is not proper for HIm to Upraid peter in public for being double faced, for teaching
the Jewish disciples to be circumcised and follow Jewish custom on the one hand and yet eating
with Gentiles (which is true Jew would never do) on the other. But Simon the son of Jonah was a good man,
he always acted in a conservative manner. Now, If Peter was being insincere only Peter and God will ever know.
And Paul have no right to talked ill of Peter! So whether Paul was right or not, his action was crude. Well, let us examine him
“To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as
one under the law…” “To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have
become all things t r to Greeks or to the church of God, just as I try to please all men
in everything o all men that I might by all means save some.” “Give no offense to Jews o
I do”( I Corinthians 9:20-22)
Now when Peter acts the same way, with the same intent, doing exactly what Paul recommended for his very own congregations, he uses it as an excuse to debase the Apostle in public and to applaud himself. See the nature of the st. Paul?
Another one, the issue is on the circumcision, right?
In his angry letter to his Galatian Church he wrote, let me quote:
Paul: “Now I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who receive circumcision that he is bound to keep the whole law. YOu are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace (Galatian 5:2-4)
This is one of his most basic convictions. But look
brother what he did:
“And he came to Derbe and to Lystra. A disciple was there, a named Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman who was a believer; but his father was a greek. He was well spoken
of by the brethren at Lystra and Iconium. Paul wanted Timothy to accompany him; and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews that were in those places, for they
all knew that his father was a greek” (Acts 16:1-3)
Do you get the point? He said in galatian “If you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage
to you, He also added “I testify again to every man who receive circumcision that he is bound
to keep the whole law. but look what he did he circumcised timothy.
————————————————————————–
YOu wrote: You cited Gal 2:14.Maybe you forgot to read or you just ignored verse 9 just to prolong your hallucinations
Galatians 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto
the circumcision. KJV.Who do you think is Cephas there? Isn’t it Peter? Don’t you remember the nursery rhyme, ‘Peter, James, and John, on a sailboat fishing…’ I do. Oh well, I forgot,
you are still a babe.
my response: Yes, it is true he met the apostles, as a matter of scriptures, when he first arrived in Jerusalem, none of
the brethen wanted to have anything to do with him, and yes, it was only when barnabas got to know him personally taking him to the apostles, that any kind of bridge was formed, and ACCEPTED HIM. But as the days went by they noticed that he is not preaching the Gospel that Jesus preached
Well, it is understandable He never met the real Jesus and therefore his lack of knowledge of Jesus’ teachings raises the questionof his relationship with Peter and others. (TAKE NOTE: HE WAS REALLY ACCEPTED BY THEM AT THE BEGINNING
BUT NOT LATER)
By the way , i noticed something in Galatian -an inconsistency between his account and what is written by luke. Consider the ff:
In galatian 2:2 He claims that his visit to Jerusalem with Barnabas and Titus was a matter of “Revelation” But according
to luke in acts it was by the order of the apostles. So let us hear the account of Luke in Acts let me quote:
“As they went on their way through the cities, they delivered to them for observance thedecisions which had been reached by the apostles and elders who were at Jerusalem.”
(Acts 16:4)
Brother here it is clear that Luke indicates that he was asked to go to Jerusalem, not by ‘revelationbut but by the apostles and elders. So who’s telling the truth Luke or Paul?
Another one in Gal 2:6 But from those who were REPUTED TO BE IMPORTANT (whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God doesn’t show partiality to man)-they, I say, who were respected imparted nothing to me.
Brother, who were those reputed to be important? Who are they? Well, it refers to no other than the disciples. Their authority came from having been chosen by Jesus, such as James the Lord’s brother,Simon Peter (Cephas)-Son of Jonah, and John son of Zebedee. Here
whether you like it or not again prove that Paul has little regard for the Apostles. Do you see now how he looked at and treated the apostles. Is he in conflict or not?
and lastly in the same epistle that you mentioned particularly
Gal 2:10 St. Paul said: “They only asked us to remember the poor-which very thing I was also zealous to do.”
Brother, In that council meeting which was recorded by Luke in ACTS, Paul lied regarding those agreements met or the requirements to be given to the Gentiles.
Paul said: “ They asked only one thing, that we remember the poor?” But during their meeting as recorded in Acts there were 4 other requirements repeated 3 times here in ACTS you can see how he lied to the Gentiles let me quote:
“Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols,
from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the
synagogues every Sabbath.” Acts 15:19-21
“…For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood,
from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.” Acts 15:28,29
“But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to
idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.” (Acts 21:25 )
See? HE WAS CAUGHT IN THE ACTS , I mean, he was caught in the ACTS written by luke. there are 4 other requirements repeated 3 times, but Paul said “they asked only one thing
that we remember the poor”. See? how he has no regards to the apostles and the brethen, he misrepresented
them.
—————————————————————————
You wrote: If Paul, who received abundance of revelations as he said (2 Cor 12:7), and confirmed by Peter (2 Pet 3:15-16), corrected them, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that So, when Paul, who received revelations from the Lord, according to himself, as confirmed by Peter, corrected the apostles, there is totally nothing wrong with that.
But never did he meant that the other apostles are lazy, misguided and unable to see the truth in Jesus’ message. He just receive abundant revelations above measure,which give him the greater responsibility.If I am Peter, I would commend and and endorse him also, including Barnabas, as what
the apostle Peter, together with John, and James really did.
my response: Brother, If he indeed received your so called abundant revelation then, it is a must that He will preach what Jesus preached. We all know that Peter is a certified apostle of Jesus. and he knows the teachings of
Jesus by heart.
Paul said: “… the very commandment which promised life proved to be death to me (Romans 7:10).
while Jesus taught to Peter et. all : ” If you would enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17)”
Peter was taught by Jesus about taking oath : “Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God . . .
Let what you say be simply yes or no; anything more than this comes from evil “Matthew 5:34-37).
But st. Paul contradicted it by saying “Before God, I do not lie,” (Galatians 1:20) Jesus said it “Anything
more than this comes from evil.
See? do you get the point, I just give you 2 examples to think about. It is true St. Paul did not preach the Gospel that Jesus preached. St. Paul nullified the law and therefore if it is indeed true that Peter endorsed him then it will only shows that Peter himself do not appreciate Jesus’s message which is not true of course. And so 2 Peter 3:15 is indeed an insertion by the Paulinist camp just to hide the conflict between Paul and Peter.
your brother in absolute reality,
william
Brother,
Peace!
You wrote: Let 9 is our goal/desired number that we should obtained for our salvation. If Saint Peter interpreted that 5 + 4 = 9, then the goal is obtain. If Saint James interpreted that 6 + 3 = 9, then we still obtain the goal. How about if Saint Paul will interpreted in this way: 3 to the power 2 is equal to 9, are you going to blame Saint Paul and accussed him as arrogant because of his classic interpretation?
But 3 x 3 = 9 also?
my response: First of all, the issues on law, faith, works and grace has been explained with biblical support quoting from the writings of the prophets. It was posted just to show, that St. Paul thought is contrary to the writings of the prophets. If it is true then where did he base his assumptions?
No brother! St. paul did not preach the gospel that Jesus and his apostles preached. And we
can verified it from his pen.
Consider the ff:
Jesus preached: ” If you would enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17)
Paul preached: “the very commandment which promised life proved to be death to me (Romans 7:10).
Jesus preached: “Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God . . . Let what you say be simply yes or no; anything more than this comes from evil (“Matthew 5:34-37).
Paul preached: “Before God, I do not lie,” (Galatians 1:20)
Brother, Let us see the difference of Jesus and St. Paul’ “PRESCRIPTIONS” of eternal life
First – St. Paul: (his prescriptions)
1. Confession: confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord (Romans 10:9)
2. Faith: believe in your heart that God raised him from the Dead (Romans 10:9)
This two prescriptions are based on the following presumptions:
a. It is the doers of the law who will be justified (romans 2:13)
b. There is none righteous, no, not one (romans 3:10). No one does the law.
c. Therefore, the works of the law will justify no human being (romans 3:20) Therefore (a) is of no effect.
d. But now the righteousness of God, which is the righteousness of christ, has been manifested of god, which is the righteousness of christ, has been manifested apart from the law and by God’s grace. Its a free gift.
e. We appropriate this righteousness to ourselves when we have faith in Christ. We will thereby be justified per (a), which remains true in principle.
f. In Christ, Therefore, we are under grace and not under the law.
g. ONe certifies this prescriptions by confessing with the lips that Jesus is Lord.
NOw Brother , take a look at Jesus’ “Prescriptions” (w/o the contaminants) and see the difference
1. Repent and Confess your sins
2. confess Jesus before men
3. Keep the commandments. Keep the Second commandment. Love your neighbor as yourself. Keep the First and Great Commandment. Love the Lord your god with all your mind, will all your heart, will all your soul, and will all your strenght, for on two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.
4. Forsake the things of this world.
5. Follow Jesus by taking up one’s own cross (not Jesus taking your own- atonement doctrine).
this is the sum of the above.
6. believe in Jesus by receiving and believing his words (his anadulterated teachings). This is the equivalent of all of the above, or put more concisely,
“If you would enter into life, keep the commandments.”
your brother in absolute reality,
william
To William,
The fact that you do not understand the apostle Paul’s writing makes 2 Peter 3:15-16 true.
And not only that, what is written in Daniel 12:10 is also really true.
I believe there is only one who can address your concerns completely.
Rest assured, you will be answered.
Thanks be to GOD because of someone like you bro. Eli.
None of the wicked shall understand but the wise will….
TO GOD BE THE GLORY FOREVER!!!AMEN.
Brother,
Peace!
you wrote: Who are you to say that there is “NO LOGICAL CONNECTION between an innocent man hanging painfully on an old wooden cross.
my response: You see, the MERCY principle as taught by the Father and the Son can be explained logically, reasonably and rationally. but now, it seems to me that you know the logical connection brother!, so please tell me the (logical) connection.
But first have you ever questioned the idea of killing an innocent man to appease God? That he required His Son, Jesus of Nazareth, to atone for the sins of humans by suffering the horrible death of crucifixion, thus becoming a a substitionary sacrificial atonement?
Brother,Yes ,it still does not make any sense that killing an innocent victim in some way makes our sins go away it is the simplistic mindset of a primitive people during those time which started as an offering by those primitive believer to their God Molech. but now we are no longer primitive! The idea or concept that our sins are somehow forgiven by nailing an innocent man to a cross is really absurd. And Is it fair? for instance, if a convicted rapist plead guilty of multiple rape, would the judge allow his law-abiding mother or father to volunteer to step in and serve his prison time or be executed instead? And following your so called “Justice” would we then tolerate allowing that rapist to be turned back unto the streets? Yes, I agree the consequence of our sins really demand punishment but it is not just any payment, it is a punishment of the guilty not for any substitution or shall i say by any innocent individual. do you follow?
And so if you still believe that killing something innocent takes away sin, then kindly explain how it works,how does killing an innocent man in any way atone for? transfer, remove our sinfulness? How does Jesus’ death remove the sin? because the person who committed a sins still has them. and the only way to change the condition of sin is to change by reformation of character thru confession and repentance and following thesublime UNADULTERATED teachings of the “Christ”.
Well, for a moment let me follow your point, If Jesus paid a ransom for our sins, who did he pay it to?
Is it to the devil? (because we are imprisoned in sin or in short satan kidnapped our soul.)
and would a merciful, wise, good, and just God pay off a ransom to a criminal?
Or does Jesus pay this “ransom to God, so you mean God extort the payment of ransoms like a common kidnapper?
Brother those are the dilemma that you and st. paul needs to solve.
Yes, it is true Christianity of today is too focused on the Death of Jesus on the calvary, rather than what he taught us as a means of salvation which is reasonable, rational and logical.
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Your wrote: Members of the Church of God are wise enough to understand that God is full of compassion and capable of handing forgiveness but you must consider that there is reason behind why he allowed His Son to die on the cross.
my response: Ok then brother, kindly tell me the reason why he allowed his Son to die on the cross Let us see whether it is reasonable & logical or not . thank you!
Your brother in absolute reality,
william
TO: William
I think you don’t understand the purpose of Saint Paul writings:
What is the hidden of that writings is, it’s for our references.
Like you did that you are interpreting the 4 gospels using the principle of Luke 17:21, John 10:34, John 10:34, Genesis 1:26, and Genesis 3:5. But sad to say that your interpretation and the interpretation of Saint Paul are contrary and that’s why you are blaming Saint Paul for not following the teaching of Jesus Christ.
In my view, I admit that it is hard to conceptualize the writings of Saint Paul it’s just like a higher language in which only a higher spiritual talented person can understand.
Remember what Saint Paul said that if any person in the church who speaks languages which is not understandable to the other members of the church then it is better to him to keep silence.
So if you didn’t understand Saint Paul writings and this can lead only to your fall then it is better that you will enroll to our church.
EYES
Brother,
Peace!
#63 you said: it is better that you will enroll to our church.
my response: Brother, You are already inside that church but still, you were unable to give me satisfactory answers (either biblically, reasonably, rationally and logically) for all my queries most especially on the issues of St. Paul.
Anyway thank you for your time!
God bless!
your brother in absolute reality,
william
To William,
Not only that you were unable to give us satisfactory answers, but you were unsatisfactory yourself.
1. You are just saying that you believe in Christ but actually you are rejecting Him because you are rejecting those whom He sent, therefore rejecting the Father who sent Him.
John 13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
2. You are also just saying that Paul is a deceiver because you do not understand everything that he wrote, making what the apostle Peter correct.
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
3. I think you better think about it again.
1 Corinthians 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
4. You are just saying that there are contradictions in what the apostle Paul wrote, but frankly, you just do not understand it.
Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
5. What you should do now is this:
Haggai 2:11 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Ask now the priests concerning the law, saying,
ITANONG MO KAY SORIANO, BIBLIA ANG SASAGOT!
Brother,
Peace!
To Dmitri (Ignorant of his own ignorance)
(di ako maka post sa kabila dto nlng tnx!)
You wrote: YES! YOU DID! Don’t mislead me to what you have said. I know how to discern a certain argument.
my response: I did? where? Let me see brother, If there is then, I will humbly apologize for that honest mistake. or perhaps you just misunderstood me!
I said: “there is NO LOGICAL CONNECTION between an innocent man hanging painfully on an old wooden cross and redemptions/eradication of sins”.
Here, my point of concern is- there’s no logical connection between his death on the cross as a sacrifice to God (sacrificial lamb/Paschal lamb/Lamb of God) and the
redemptions/eradications of our sins. Because how can you logically transfer the sin from guilty to the innocent?
How does it work logically?
How does killing an innocent man in any way remove, atone for, or transfer our transgressions?
How does Jesus’ death remove the sin (our sins)?
Because, the guilty must be punished for his own transgressions( unless of course he repent), or as what ive pointed out in my previous post figuratively that God will not let the “rapist (sinner) back unto the streets”, he will be liable ‘coz there is no such thing as substitution of sins. And therefore it is logical to say that We are liable for what we have done. Are we not?
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You wrote: Is there any VALUE of Jesus death on the cross to
the redemption/eradication of sin?
my response: YOu mean as a sacrifice on the cross
for the redemption of sins? There is NO value! because he was not a sacrificial lamb in the first place. He was a good shepherd let us quote from him: ” I am the good shepherd, the good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.” he does not claim to be like a shepherd take note, but “I am the good shepherd” He laid down his life not as a lamb but He is the Good shepherd who laid his life down for the lamb, in short he died as a shepherd and not a lamb, But, if what you mean is that He died as a ransom for the release of the captives.- in that sense Yes there is a value! Do you follow?
Do you understand now that he was not a sacrifice to God for our sins? but If you still insist that he is indeed the paschal lamb being the sacrifice for our sins because without shedding of blood there is no remission of sins then kindly explain it logically, reasonably, rationaly and biblically (of course in the light of Jesus’ teachings)
Your brother in absolute reality,
william
So for long running of this forum i pressume that, the biblical truth seems pointless to william, and almost the verses and character of the bible contradicting with each other, and all of the time that william reading the bible and doing this long write-ups and some other research that he was doing just wasting time, iv’e seen almost negative but still he cannot find the good reason and answer’s to many questions in his mind..but bro. eli is welcome if you want a debate or ask question at http://www.truthcaster.com or in this website your welcome just give us your email or contact number anywhere, all kinds of communication we can use for you, just to enlighten you if you’re willing to do so….thanks…
In line with the blog posted today..why d RCC is not the true church that can lead us to salvation..i do understand the feeling of Kay, because I for one was once a devoted catholic member..at first i was even cursing Bro.Eli for reading the Biblical verses against of what i unquestionably embraced catholicisms` beliefs…he (Bro. Eli) does not make all of those statements by himself..even before he was born these factual prophecies are inscripted in the holy book.
The key to be further enlightened with God`s words and wits.. have an open mind, heart and ears to analyze and test the preachers…whether he be speaking of guile and deceit or for indeed the UNDISPUTED TRUTH..
Kay…may you continue searching..and finally find the TRUE ONE as what I have luckily found..May He guide you as you do so..
I remain a ciervos inutiles summos..
To GOD be the Glory!
To Williams
Greetings to you in the name of God the Father and Our Lord Jesus Christ. I have followed your arguements in this forum and I have a comment for you.
Do you agree that the bible was written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. If you do, why will you think that Paul writings contradict Jesus and the other apostles. Are you saying that the Holy Spirit the Spirit of Truth is an author of confusion and discord. Remember the Lord Jesus said that sins against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. I pray you be careful as you are going down an uncharted path.
Joshua,
Peace!
Is there a compiled book known as Bible that directly fell from HEAVEN?
How can you say the entire Book is inspired if St. Paul’s writings contradicted the thought of the Prophets and Jesus himself?
There are two inspiration, the first one is the INSPIRATION of the HOLY SPIRIT and the other one is the inspiration of that Christ in the road to DAMASCUS.
I would rather believe in the INSPIRATION of the HOLY SPIRIT as given by the direct apostles in the synoptics, I mean those that are not adulterated by the paulinist.
your brother in absolute reality,
william
I thanks GOD for sending us a messenger like bro. ELI,truly a messenger of GOD in our time,…..It’s loud & clear we should be in the CHURCH OF GOD.
If some people hate the Church. It follows they did not want Christ. Because Christ is the head of the Church.
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Hebrews 3:6
King James Version
GLORY TO GOD IN THE HIGHEST. May HIS peace be always with you Bro Eli, Bro Daniel, brethrens in the CHURCH OF GOD International, and to fellow bloggers. We are very fortunate that in this end times, GOD continuously feed us with the HEAVENLY BREAD through his most vocal. sensible, steadfast, and biblical Preacher and Messenger, Bro Eli. It is very clear that GOD wants HIS PEOPLE AND CHILDREN into HIS CHURCH with HIS SON JESUS CHRIST as the head. While we do not claim like the rcc and the inc-ni-manalo, and the other false churches that there is no salvation outside their church, [GOD will judge in the end those outside the church, whether for salvation or punishment] the CHURCH OF GOD is difinitely one sure way to be save, especially for those who have already heard or known GOD’s TRUTH. It is a pity that still among the illiterate and the poor in remote places, they think the church is the chapel, the building or the structure, and not the GODLY inspired brotherhood and congregation of men called the CHURCH OF GOD. It is in the CHURCH OF GOD that members received the messages and instructions of the LORD, through Bro Eli and Bro Daniel. It is here where BRETHRENS DWELL TOGETHER IN UNITY as written in PSALMS 133:1. It is also in this CHURCH OF GOD that the prophesy in JEREMIAH 30:19-22 is fulfilled. THANKS BE TO GOD. Thank you also Bro Eli, Bro Daniel for unselfishly spreading the TRUTH OF GOD against all odds, against all the threats to your lives, health and your personal comforts, we will always pray for you and follow you.
“Who says that salvation has no requirement? Just entering your own house or dwelling place requires very important things. If on the way, you stepped on a shit, common sense requires you to take your shoes off before entering. Good morals require you to knock at the door of your child before entering his or her room.” LOL