The Faulty Covenant of the Seventh Day Adventist Church
July 5, 2007 by Bro. Eli
This is a reply to the comment posted by a certain Mr. Adventist777 regarding my article entitled, “The Old Covenant Can not Sanctify Anymore” . His comment is states:
Mr. Soriano, You said: The Old Covenant Can Not Sanctify Anymore?
Be careful with your mouth preacher! Do not speak great words against the most high. Do not even think to change the Laws of God. (Daniel 7:25)
Mr. Adventist777
Dear Mr. Adventist777,
I am glad you read my blog. I thank you for your time. But let me tell you something frank! Your comments which I had printed above in red are disgusting. I don not blame you because it is somewhat common to Adventists in the guise of following the Ten Commandments to charge people falsely. Maybe, it is the spirit that flows in some members of your congregation like you and Mr. Scott.
When you said, “Be careful with your mouth preacher! Do not speak great words against the most high”, you are in utter defiance of the 9th of the Ten Commandments, which you are hopelessly defending. It is not my mouth which said that the Old Testament can not sanctify or justify anybody anymore. It is the mouth of God!
(Hebrews 8:13) “In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”
It was God who said that He is making a new covenant which made the previous old and destined to vanish away.
Can you not see the verse? Or are you blinded by your fanatical adherence to your church?
To prove that it was God’s mouth who pronounced and said that the former covenant was made old by the new, let us copy another verse from your bible.
(Hebrews 8:6-10) “But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their heart…” emphasis mine in red.
Let us decipher these verses.
(6) “But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.”
If you will notice, the verse speaks of a better covenant. The adjective better is used, grammatically, to compare two different things. The Lord Jesus Christ is the mediator of a better covenant,. meaning, that before he became such, there was a former covenant. What kind of a covenant was the former? Let us read verse 7.
(7) “For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.”
It was the mouth of the apostle Paul or the writer of the book to the Hebrews who said this, not mine. The first covenant, in comparison to the second, was described by Paul as ‘faulty’.
Again, Mr. Adventist777, I want to reiterate that it is not my mouth that said this. Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor (Exodus 20:16). Remember, that is the ninth commandment!
Now, what happened to the ‘faulty’ first covenant?
He said on verse 8.
( 
“For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah…”
The verse said because God found fault in them, God said “I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah…”
It must be understood that the first covenant, which became faulty, was also given to the house of Israel and to the house of Judah. The same nation that received the first covenant will also be the recipient of the new covenant.
What was the first covenant that was given to the house of Israel and the house of Judah?
Let us read verse 9.
(9) “Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.”
The verse said that the second covenant will not be according to the covenant He made with the fathers of the nation of Israel, which God gave them after they were liberated from Egypt.
What was that covenant that was given by God to the Israelites immediately after they left Egypt?
(Deuteronomy 4:13) “And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.”
So, it is crystal clear that the covenant given to the Israelites at Mount Sinai, after they left Egypt, are the Ten Commandments written on two tables of stones.
To prove that this covenant is the Ten Commandments on two tables of stone that was given by God after they left Egypt, let us read Exodus 31:18.
“And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.”
Moses was the recipient of the first covenant to be given to the people of Israel. Jesus Christ will be the minister of the new or the better covenant.
Look closely on the following verses:
(Hebrews 8:5-6) “Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern showed to thee in the mount. But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.”
Now, we know that the term ‘better covenant’ was used to describe the comparison between the covenant received by Moses — which are the Ten Commandments; and the covenant wherein the Lord Jesus Christ is the mediator.
These facts tell us a great truth.
1st Covenant > Moses
Better Covenant > Jesus Christ
In the book of Hebrews, the apostle Paul speaks to the nation of Israel or the Hebrews about “a change”.
(Hebrews 7:12) “For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”
Notice two important facts in the preceding verse: There was a change of priesthood and there was a change of the law.
May I remind you, Mr. Adventist, that I am not the one making the change. This verse was written in the bible even before my great-great grandparents were born. Do not use Daniel 7:25 against me, which your leaders are using to accuse the Catholic Church who, according to them, changed Saturday to Sunday. Catholics will not answer you, but treat me not like them; for I will answer you with the Bible wherever you may be; wherever you may go.
It was the apostle Paul who said that there was a change of the priesthood and the law. What was that priesthood that was changed? It was the priesthood of the Levites — the tribe where Moses came.
(Hebrew 7:5) “And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham…”
It was this priesthood that was commanded by God to collect ten percent (10%). I know that Seventh Day Adventists now vehemently insists that their members give ten percent aside from other offerings; but mind you, these are for the Levitical priest under the priesthood that was ‘changed’.
The priesthood of Christ and the Church of God is the priesthood in the Christian dispensation. This is the replacement of the Levitical priesthood, that was changed.
(1 Peter 2:9) “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light…”
The Church of God was made priest with Christ as the chief.
(Revelation 1:6) “And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.”
(Hebrews 3:1) “Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus…”
Christ as the chief priest of the Church of God who replaced Moses; and his priesthood; and his laws.
(Hebrews 3:2-3) “Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honor than the house.”
Jesus Christ is the best replacement for Moses and his priesthood. Remember, when the priesthood was changed, there was also a need for the change of the law. The laws administered by Moses are the Ten Commandments written on two tables of stones: It is the first covenant; but the new is better. In fact, the Bible called it a better covenant. It is the covenant under the administration of the best priest ever, Our Lord Jesus Christ. The first covenant, compared to the second, is declared faulty. It is not I, who said this, but the Bible.
How do we determine the difference between the two covenants? Making the latter better than the former.
(2 Corinthians 3:6) “Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.”
The New Testament or the new covenant is of the spirit and gives life but, the old are letters and it kills. Which are these letters that kill representing the old covenant or testament?
(2 Corinthians 3:7- “But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?”
It is clear, therefore, that the letters that killeth are the letters written and engraven in stones, which are the Ten Commandments — also called “The Old Testament”.
(Hebrews 10:2 “He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses…”
Anybody who transgress the law of Sabbath will be stoned to death.
(Numbers 15:32-36) “And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.”
The new covenant is of the spirit and it gives life. The new covenant is the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ or his gospel.
(john 6:63) “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
The new covenant is not written on stones, but in fleshly tables of the heart.
(2 Corinthians 3:3) “Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.”
It is God the Father Himself that writes the New Covenant in the hearts of Christians.
(Hebrews 8:10) “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people…”
The new covenant is ably administered by the Spirit of God and the apostles. While the former covenant or testament was administered by angels.
(Acts 7:37-3 “This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us…”
(Acts 7:53) “Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.”
Better still; let us discover the root of these two covenants or testaments.
(Galatians 4:22-26) “For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which engendereth to bondage, which is Hagar. For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.”
In this allegory, the two women who bore the two sons of Abraham are the two covenants. One, represented by Hagar, the bondmaid of Sarah: figurative of Mount Sinai, from where the first covenant or the Ten Commandments were given to Moses. The other covenant or mother represents Sarah, a free woman: figurative of Jerusalem above, from whence the New Testament or covenant came — which is the mother of us all: The Christians. So, it is very clear that the mother of ‘us all’ (Christians), according to Paul is not the Ten Commandments or Hagar (whose son was born after the flesh), but, Sarah, the free woman representing Jerusalem above who is the mother of us all — born by promise.
Are there sufficient evidences to prove that the new covenant or testament is far better than the covenant which contain the law on Sabbath?
To be continued…
God Bless.
EFS
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The Old Covenant Can Not Sanctify Anymore
The True Sabbath for the True Christian is… [drumroll]
The Rationale Why God Created Woman
The Church Of The Bible: The Only 100% True Church
Are We Being Pretentious? Who Cares?!
The Church Of God Is Needed For Salvation
AMEN!!!
We, the members of the Church of God in these times, pray that you, 7th-day loyalists, will open-mindedly read what Bro Eli has been sincerely writing these past 8 posts specifically for you.
Please do not resort to baseless and pointless verbal batterings laced with unfounded accusations >>>>>
(“Be careful with your mouth preacher! Do not speak great words against the most high”)
With God’s help and mercy, Bro Eli has thoroughly explicated what he has been wanting to make you realize through the verses in the Bible.
May God enlighten your hearts and minds as He has with our countless brothers and sisters who are former Adventists themselves.
God bless.
I hope Mr. Adventist777 and the other Adventists out there will be able to read this one. The explanations made by Bro. Eli herewith are very clear and are purely based on the Bible.
I’m looking forward to the continuation of this article!!!
To Adventist777,
There you have it, a taste of a “not your own” medicine!
And Bro. Eli’s medicine is a much “better” medication! A new medicament which replaces the old one that you have which has already expired!
Take the new one and be cured brother! Deny your own righteousness, accept the teaching and be healed.
Your expired medicine kills according to the gospel!
Humble yourself and accept the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ being preached by the only sensible preacher in our time.
i think these spiritual battle is much great if it will be shown in a Telivision Program…
Members of Church of God Vs. Seventh day adventist..
TO: Mr. Adventist777
You wrote: Mr. Soriano, You said: The Old Covenant Can Not Sanctify Anymore?
Be careful with your mouth preacher! Do not speak great words against the most high. Do not even think to change the Laws of God. (Daniel 7:25)
————————————————————————–
Brother, what Brother Eli said is absolutely true.
If there is a word more than “change” then it is better to use that if it is the only way that a dead soul will make alive.
If we will based on a grading system the old covenant is just a passing grade or within a passing score or in a level it just only an elementary level for an elementary society. Why?
Because:
A flesh without spirit is dead.
A good works without faith is dead
A righteousness without love is dead
A house which build in a sand is dead or fool.
Remember brother Jesus christ is asking you in this way.
And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.” (Mark 3:4)
or in short.
Which is better, to do good sincerely from your heart?, or by observing it?. or by doing it just only for the sake of completion?.
Remember again brother what Jesus christ said.
“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt LOVE the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.” (Matthew 22:37)
“This is the first and great commandment”.(Matthew 22:3
“And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt LOVE thy neighbour as thyself.” (Mt:22:39)
“On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” (Mathew 22:40)
In short the dividing factor brother is LOVE and that is the different between the two covenants.
Therefore when you are in love it does not necessarily that you always reminded about the law or any good things or ceremoial things to be done.
It just like a son feeding her old aged mother even without reminding that son or without paying the labor of that son his conscience reminding him to feed and care his mother because of love.
and that is the greatest work and trait which can make a christian sanctify.
EYES
Mr. Adventist777,
First, I am truly glad that your comments has made Bro. Eli explain about the covenant. It is as if a new book of knowledge has been opened to those who have been painstakingly waiting for new issues and topics from him.
Let those who differ in faith (like us) open their eyes. I guess this blog is truly for those with open mind and not for religious fanatics. We all want salvation in the coming of Jesus Christ and I don’t think there is anything wrong with what he (Bro. Eli) is saying. Instead, we should learn from him because reading his articles has truly explained things which I for one never thought of before.
Let him preach… Let us read and learn.
Bro. Eli,
Thank you for unselfishly sharing your knowledge in the Bible. Please continue to write so that we may learn more about God and find our way to eternal life!
More Power and God Bless…
Amazing!…bro. Eli. Truly God loves us very much because we have you who teaches us the mystery of the gospel of Christ. I always pray to God who is able to keep us from falling that He will always keep you where ever you go. ssD
cool sir.
To Mr. Adventist777
You should prepare all your questions! The more you ask the more you will learn.
Mr. Adventist777,
Search any preacher on our time wherein you can ask and can honestly answer all your questions in the bible and i’m sure you cannot find. Brother Eli is not speaking from his own words but from God’s words. If you cannot accept the truth that the old covenant cannot sanctify anymore then you’re anti christ. You do not believe on what God said.
Don’t waste your time brother… time’s getting shorter.. Very soon you’ll realize that our Lord Jesus Christ is calling you.. Just open your heart and mind.. Don’t harden your heart and be fanatic on your false religion..
Matthew 11:29-30 “Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
Don’t wait for the time that you’ll blame yourself..
Everyone’s welcome to be part of the true church which is the Church of God..
I Corinthians 1:1-2 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, Unto the CHURCH OF GOD which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in CHRIST JESUS, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
I Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the CHURCH of the Thessalonians WHICH IS IN GOD THE FATHER AND IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thanks brother Eli for sharing us God’s words..
To God be the glory!!! ssD..
hello JP_030405,
There was already a taped debate between Bro. Eli and Mr. Vickers, an adventist.
The video can be found at http://www.theoldpath.tv
> Click for the link “Bro. Eliseo Soriano vs Mr. Mitch Vickers” under “Featured Videos” at the bottom-side right.
or…
> search for the keyword “Vickers”
… Enjoy watching!
To Mr. Adventist777 & Mr. Scott:
I encourage you to ask your high ranking preacher and invite all your members to have a live formal debate on popular television.
defend your Seventh Day Aventist Church is the true church.
and we will defend that you are not. And as members of Church of God International is the true Church according to the Bible. Our preacher is always ready 24/7.
Isaiah 1:18 (KJV)
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Mr. Adventist777,
You should have prepared your evidences before charging accusations.
Now it seems that you are the one ignorant of the bible.
May God open your mind and see the truth. I don’t blame you for being ignorant. I was more stupid during my 30 years of life here on earth!
May you see the light!
Mr.adventist777
It’s not your fault why you have said such thing…
Because you only express what you have heard from your preacher…
But next time, please don’t be hasty in saying things that you don’t understand..
Because you just don’t know who’s your dealing with…
May this be a lesson to you…
To God be the Glory…
to mr. adventist***, Scott & Anthony,
if you only knew that it’s much better to follow the law of Christ than the law of moises because it is laid on better promises. If you only knew that sin has no power over it because Jesus had triumphantly won at the cross. The power of sin has no dominion over the grace of God. That’s why his yoke is easy. We all have the true sabbath unto him.
The new covenant can save anyone through our lord Jesus but former can not. That’s why during configuration of our Jesus in the mount with three apostles suggested to put up three tabernacles one for Elias, one for moises, and one for Jesus, God rebuked them and said to hear his Son.
The ministers of the SDA clearly doesn’t want to listen to Jesus until now. Because of their foolishness, They have infected many people to rally behind them. Surely, they aren’t like the three apostles who fearfully bowed to the ground and obeyed God. If that is the case whom are they?…I will not continue my deduction yet. I want those individual who is on their side to answer this. ssD
to mister adventist777
he he he
ignorant of the law excuses no one
ignorant in the bible you maybe excused by God
but ignoring what was heard to brother eli could make you
as “adventist666″
go back to start
and always ask brother eli about what you need to learn specially in saving your soul, take note its free
free=(libre, in our very own language)
and we are always waiting for your follow up try again maybe next time you may have your points
try it, try it again until you die theres no harm in trying
ok ill give you a hint, why not gather all adventist pastors, ministers or prophets (if you have)all over the world and have a devate with brother eli alone
pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee….
Adventist members must start the exodus! leave your false belief , denounce your membership from that church founded by Ellen G. White and cohorts and join us in the true church. Take The Old Path and let Bro Eli with God’s help show you the way to salvation.
Mr. adventist777
Close your eyes… Sometimes you have to close your eyes to see the Light…
Bro. Eli… Your the man.. God bless you always…
note: To Minister Soriano and all members of the church of God international, pardon me, I was just so shocked when I read your minister preaching that the eternal covenant of God was already obsolete or was changed. It was only an outburst of emotion on my part. My apology!
Most Reverend minister Soriano you quoted:
“But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator
of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first
covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when
I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took
them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in
my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I
will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws
into their mind, and write them in their heart…” emphasis mine in red.
Hebrews 8:13) “In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth
and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”
———————————————————-
my response: Sir, in the above quotation from Hebrews 8:8-10, the author quotes the passage from Jeremiah where God mention of a new covenant. This passages reads:
“Behold the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not according to the covenant that I made with their
fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenantwhich they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord, but this is the covenant that I willmake with the house of Israel after those days, says the lord: i will put MY LAWS in their mind
and write IT on their heart and I will be their god and they shall be MY people ( Jeremiah 31:31-33)
But sir, look to what the author draws from the above prophecy
“In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”
While from the prophecy of Jeremiah there is anything (nothing) old or obsolete mention with the law of Moses. While the author put his own ideas on the prophecy saying that “waxeth old and is ready to vanish avay”….
On the contrary God says: …” THIS is the covenant that i will make with the house of Israel….I will put MY LAWS in their mind and write them on their hearts……”
So, The new covenant is not a new and different law . and to percieve it instinctively Israel will be given a covenant a new heart that will know all of God’s law.
The author of hebrew started an erroneous presupposition that there must exist a new covenant since the previous
one must be old and obsolete, But this assumption is false as we have seen in the prophecy of Jeremiah.
Jesus christ will never slay the torah . Since it is an eternal
covenant. In truth, he will bring it to the nations as prophecied(Isaiah 2:4; Zecharia 8:2; 14: 16-19) The law will never pass away or become void. Remember again the prophecy of Prophet Isaiah “the lord is well pleased for his righteousness’ sake; HE WILL MAGNIFY THE LAW AND MAKE IT HONORABLE” (Isaiah 42:21).
“If you would enter life, Keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17)
“Think not that I have come to abollish the LAW and the PROPHETS; I HAVE COME NOT TOABOLISH THEM BUT TO FULFILL THEM (Isaiah 42:21). For truly I sayto you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, nor a dot, will pass from the law untill all is accomplished. WHOEVER THEN RELAXES ONE OF THE LEAST OF THE COMMMANDMENTS AND TEACHES MEN SO, shall be called LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great
in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 5:17-19))
Here sir, To fulfill them means like this metaphor- Jesus took an old house then he fully refurbished and completed it so that it lacked nothing. Take note he ended with the same house that was there at the beggining, yet significantly strengthened.
Here sir, relaxation, loosening of the law is never the goal of Jesus who aimed to do the opposite by tightening it and bring it in accord which has been the law of the Father from the beginning
……For truly I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished….
“It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the law to become void (Luke 16:17)
Jesus came to magnified the law, as he did in the sermon on the Mount when he repeatedly selected certain laws and said: You have heard that it has been said….But i say unto you… in each case he stiffined the law, making it more rigid than it had been while also saying words of condemnation
on those who would relax it.
For example:
He stiffined the law: e.g. 1 “You heard that it was said to the ancients: You shall not murder and whoever murders will be liable for judgment. But I say to you that everyone angry with his brother will be liable for judgment” (Matthew 5:21-22)
e.g. 2 : “You have heard that it was said, “You shall not commit adultery.” but I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed
adultery with hera in his heart (Matthew 5:27-2
e.g. 3: You have heard that it was said: “An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth,” and Jesus stiffens it by saying : “Do not resist one who is evil (Matthew 5:38, 39)
Sir, we can only fully understand the stiffening of the law if we can grasp the message of Jesus in the following statement: ” Whoever loves his life loses it, but whoever hate his life in this world will keep it for life eternal”
He simplified the law : e.g. 1. ” So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets” (Matthew 7:12)
e.g. 2 “And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said to him, “What is written in the law? how do you read?, and he answeredYou shall love the lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your strenght
and with all your mind and your neighhbor as yourself and he said to him “You have answered right
do this, and you will live” (luke 10:25-2
He condensed the law: “Teacher, what sort of commandment is great in the law? So he said to himand all your mind, you will love the lord your God in all your heart and in all your life.
This is the great and first commandment, the second is like it, You will love your neighbor as yourself. In these two commanments hang all the law and the prophets. (matthew 26:36-39)
Here sir, it does not represent a new law, because it comes from the same law.
In summation: Jesus christ condensed the law to its essence. He also internalized the law by making it a matter of thoughts and attitude of the heart. so it is applicable to all cultures (not only to the jews ) and circumstances. He definitely did not abolish, destroy the law of moses neither bring it to an end.
Now, let us go back to Daniel 7:25
“And he shall speak great words against the most high, and shall wear out the saints of the most
hight, and think to changes times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until
a time and times and the dividing of times”
Who’s he? who speak great words against the most high?
who wear out the saints of the most high?
Who changed the laws? …….who nullified the law?
“Truly, truly, I say unto you he who does not enter the sheepfold by the doorbut climbs in by another way, is a thief and a robber; but he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens; the sheep hear his voice and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him,
for they do not know the voice of strangers” (john 10:1-5)
Who’s he? what is that stranger? Who climbs in by another way? who is not part of the fold?
“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not
prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock.” (matthew 7:22-24)
Who’s he who called our Lord Jesus Christ, Lord, lord, lord many times, too many to count while at the same time disobeying our lord?
Who’s this man who boast that He labored more abundantly ? NOT the disciples of Jesus why? the apostles of Jesus were being taught of humility, simplicity and modestly “do not let the left hand know what the right hand is doing”, meaning they will never boast for their works as fishers of men. let God himself appreciate their works.
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jt dxb wrote: oh yes! the young man was following the law hmm… but why did he went away sorrowful? he was following the law as mr. adventist were saying.
Mat 19:20 The young man said to Him, I have kept all these things from my youth up; what do I lack yet?
my response: why? because He did not actually follow the entire law. What lack I yet? Jesus said: “Sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven and come follow me, the man could have done this only if he had truly loved God and hated his life in this world. If he truly loved God he would have been keeping the 1st, 2nd and 3rd commandment. If he had truly loved his neighbor as he claimed, he would not have been coveting his neighbor’s possessionsand so would have been obedient to have the 10th commandment.
“And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said to him, “What is written in the law? how do you read?, and he answered You shall love the lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your strenght
and with all your mind and your neighhbor as yourself and he said to him “You have answered right
do this, and you will live” (luke 10:25-2
See? Jesus condensed the entire law without losing its essence.
………Jt dxb do this and you will live!……..
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: The author of hebrew started an erroneous presupposition that there must exist a new covenant since the previous one must be old and obsolete, But this assumption is false as we have seen in the prophecy of Jeremiah.
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Who are you to say that the author of Hebrew started an erroneous presupposition? Shame on you! By such statement, you are truly going against the real authorities of the Gospel and that makes you an enemy of Christ!
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
I would rather believe Paul, a minister in the Church of God who is acknowledged by his co-apostles, rather your leader, who is a woman that has truly misled you. What the Bible says about your kind is very true.
Isa 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.
Is your leader, Ellen G. White, a woman? Answer that! I just hope that you will not accuse Isaiah also of making an erroneous presuppositon as well.
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Also, the Apostle John said that Christ broke the Sabbath. Don’t tell me John also made an erroneous presupposition about what Christ did.
Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
According to John, Christ clearly broke the Sabbath! If Sabbath must be observed, why did Christ broke the Sabbath ??? Answer that !!!
To Adventist777
YOU STATED: “Think not that I have come to abollish the LAW and the PROPHETS; I HAVE COME NOT TO ABOLISH THEM BUT TO FULFILL THEM
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Which law must Christ fulfill? The Law of Moses? So stupid! That law is not intended for him! Even for a newly born child, you can never command such laws! Should you tell a newly born child “thou shall not kill”? Much more with Christ! Stupid!
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
Is Christ righteous? Answer that! If your answer is yes, then the law of Moses is truly not intended for Christ!
————
Bear in mind that there are many laws being mentioned in the scriptures! Do not hastily conclude that it only pertains to the law of Moses.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
This is just for your information.
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Which law then must Christ fulfill? Definitely those which are commanded for him to fulfill “CONCERNING HIM”! But it is clear that it is not the law of Moses intended for Israel because it was not intended for a righteous man.
To prove this:
Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
You see? “CONCERNING ME”! Why mention that term if Christ would be fulfilling the same law that Israel must follow?
Even in the book of Psalms there are things written concerning Christ that he must fulfill. Let us prove one prophecy that he must fulfill “CONCERNING HIM”.
Psa 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
Is this included in the 10 Commandments or rather a prophecy “CONCERNING CHRIST” that he must fulfill?
If Christ would be fulfilling the same 10 Commandments given by Moses intended for Israel, then there wouldn’t have been a need for Christ to mention “all things must be fulfilled … “CONCERNING ME”
Even a grade schooler who is in his right sense of thinking could easily understand that. Sadly, foolish religious fanatics won’t be able to, unless they humble themselves and admit their own errors in the sight of God.
Read Bro. Eli’s articles again and again brother. Stop being a blashphemer, repent and may God have mercy on your soul.
To Adventist777,
Thanks to your time and making the discussion flow.
But never address Bro. Eli again as “Most Reverrend Minister Soriano.” Bro. Eli cannot accept this title, and we the members, cannot either.
just to prove your point you even edited the verses:
( Jeremiah 31:31-33) Behold the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, NOT ACCORDING to the covenant that I made with their
fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenantwhich they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord, but this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the lord: I will put MY LAWS in their mind
and write IT on their heart and I will be their God and they shall be MY people.
you wrote: On the contrary God says: …” THIS is the covenant that i will make with the house of Israel….I will put MY LAWS in their mind and write them on their hearts……”
And you concluded, without the aide of the scriptures, of course……
So, The new covenant is not a new and different law . and to percieve it instinctively Israel will be given a covenant a new heart that will know all of God’s law.
BE CAREFUL ,mr adventist:
Pro 30:6 Do not add to His Words, lest He reprove you and you be found a liar.
Rev 22:18 For I testify together to everyone who hears the Words of the prophecy of this Book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add on him the plagues that have been written in this Book.
Rev 22:19 And if anyone takes away from the Words of the Book of this prophecy, God will take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which have been written in this Book.
you also wrote: The author of hebrew started an erroneous presupposition that there must exist a new covenant since the previous
one must be old and obsolete, But this assumption is false as we have seen in the prophecy of Jeremiah.
you’re having problems with St. Paul’s epistles ? so the prophecy of Jeremiah is more correct (just reading it the way you want it!).
To inside man:
you wrote: how about you, are you doing that way? or you just observing it by mouth! and the Israelites burn animals for offerings are you doing it now also? if not even for the real people sabbath keeper during those time it will not pass your doings now, simple matter you cannot follow 100 percent what they did before, so how can you be true to yourself and your church?
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Can you give me a verse proving that Jesus nullifed doing sabbath? Jesus just molded it.
“The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath” (mark 2:27)
And so , anytime mercy arises, you can perform good deeds even when it is the day of Sabbath. It is lawful to do good on the sabbath. (Matthew 12:9-14)
Inside man, why would I burn animals for offerings in the first place? Is God delighted on them?
Perhaps, you are all ill-informed of the real follower of the Seventh day adventist church. YOu see, your views of this church are faulty!
You’re really not careful on your statements. After bursting your emotion as you’ve said against our big brother, You blasted another false accusations to apostle Paul when writing,… “The author of hebrew started an erroneous presupposition that there must exist a new covenant since the previous
one must be old and obsolete, But this assumption is false as we have seen in the prophecy of Jeremiah…” You didn’t bro. Eli as of now, but the more i noticed you knew nothing about apostle. And yet you even wrote worst, baseless drama of your wild imaginations against him. Your digging deeper pit for own grave. Let just see how bro. Eli corrects you. ssD
to mr. adventist***,
This is your injection of your own idea. May i re-write it,… “Here sir, To fulfill them means like this metaphor- Jesus took an old house then he fully refurbished and completed it so that it lacked nothing. Take note he ended with the same house that was there at the beggining, yet significantly strengthened.
Here sir, relaxation, loosening of the law is never the goal of Jesus who aimed to do the opposite by tightening it and bring it in accord which has been the law of the Father from the beginning…”
You are basing your context from your own view. This view is not acceptable to me. You’ve tied up with imagination that never exist in the bible. “Tightening, relaxation, loosening and using your methaphor to put Jesus into your own situation. O, common!..ssD
to adventist***,
It’s nice to see you apologized, But isn’t that ironic after apologizing you hit another servant of God who is Paul. I believed Paul wrote the letter adressed to hebrews and you were downgrading him. I have high regard with Paul because he was so blessed that he was caught up in the third heaven to hear unspeakable things that no man should utter. You are nothing compared to him in terms of wisdom and love he offered to the Church of God. too bad for you?!….ssD
Otan: Thanks to your time and making the discussion flow.
my response: Brother thank you! it is my pleasure to be here. We are only here for spiritual talk not for any sort of unnecessary anger.
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jt dxb :just to prove your point you even edited the verses
my response:in Jeremiah 31:31-35? i did not! compare it! It’s the author of Hebrew who added/put the word “waxeth old and is ready to vanish away” which you cannot find there.
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To tony santos:
you wrote: Should you tell a newly born child “thou shall not kill”? Much more with Christ! Stupid!
my response: Are you blind? I explained it already Christ stiffened the law: e.g. 1 “You heard that it was said to the ancients: You shall not murder and whoever murders will be liable for judgment. But I say to you that everyone angry with his brother will be liable for judgment” (Matthew 5:21-22) See? Jesus internalized the law by making it a matter of thoughts and attitude of the heart.
you wrote: Which law then must Christ fulfill? Definitely those which are commanded for him to fulfill “CONCERNING HIM”! But it is clear that it is not the law of Moses intended for Israel
because it was not intended for a righteous man.
my response: tony bear in mind that Jesus often paired the law with the prophets. Let us quote from him
“ON these hand all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:40)
the law here represent the Pentateuch, 5 books of moses, and the prophets refers to the balance of the holy scriptures that we call the old testament, the Psalms of david sometimes distinguished from the prophets.
Do you agree? Well, i dont care if you’ll agree or not but both Jesus and Paul agree on this distinction
Though there is also another law, which is known in the gospel as the “traditions of the elders” mentioned by
Jesus in matthew 15.
So tony regarding the law of moses he said:
“For truly I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished (Matthew 6:1
Then of his own words he said: “heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away (Matthew
24:35)
See there are two, TWO THINGS will not pass away: “the law as delivered by moses (which was stiffined, condensed,
universalized, simplified by Jesus or simply magnified by Jesus as prophecied) and the word delivered by Jesus
the two stand together while heaven and earth endure. Therefore your quotation in Luk 24:44 “Concerning me” is True also. do you understand now tony? Tony, do not underestimate God. He is eternal and therefore His Words must be Eternal.
As what I’ve said in my previous post In luke 16:17, Jesus did not mean all the aspects of law would continue to be enforced. As a matter of fact he stiffened the law. He raised it to be a matter of will or desire rather than of a mere action.like for instance many laws in the Philippines are no
longer enforced. Time changes, the society changes and they are not currently needed. but they remain on the books and can be enforced should any administration choose to do so. So it is with much of the law as delivered by Moses.
IN summation: Jesus indeed maintains the law of moses without loss of jot or title as the law for servant under his administration of the kingdom of God. He condensed it to its essence and stiffened it.
Clear?
Dear Mr. Adventist ,
if all this verses which my friends have wrote to you , and still you don’t get it, try at my website
To leo:
I believed Paul wrote the letter adressed to hebrews and you were downgrading him.
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Leo, the author of hebrew does not identify himself though
the thought is similar to Paul’s message.
A good candidate is Apollos- leader early messianic movement, mentioned 10x in the New testament, 2x in the books of ACTS, 8X by Paul himself.
“Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am paul” or “I am of Apollos, or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ” (I cor. 1:12)
Look! apollos is the closest to paul in the above quoted verse
Paul thinks highly of Apollos, b’coz latter always agrees with his doctrine
St. Paul style in writing is different, he always refer to himself with the use of personal pronoun like “I”, “ME”, “MY”, and “MINE. so Paul is not the author of book of Hebrew.
To Adventist_ _ _,
Thanks to your time and making the discussion flow.
But never address Bro. Eli again as “Sir” also… Bro. Eli cannot accept this title, and we the members, cannot either.
to Adventist triple 7,
so it means you just follow exact 10 commandments of Moises that written on two tablet of stone? I guess you know all the laws aside from 10 given to moises for your information :
the ten have counterpart laws for Deutoronomy 5:8 Thou shall not make any graven image, or any likeness…..
Exodus 20:23 Ye shall not make with me god of silver, neither shall make unto you………………
Exodus 20:24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shall sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.
It is clear that Israelites do this offerings, but did I say that they were blessed because of this doings you can ask bro. eli…that will be another topic.
The 10 commandments of Moises was only meant for the Israel that have been slave in Egypt..
Deutoronomy 5: 1-4 , The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
And for Sabbath keepers there are many counterpart laws also just read Exodus 22:16 continue up to 23, are all this must followed one by one? So therefore in Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make in the house of Israel; I will put my law in their inward parts,…….And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother,………..2 Corinthians 3:3 “Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.”
Did anyone on this forum tell that the Sabbath nullified / void by Jesus Christ? He is the Lord of the Sabbath ( above the law ) like God the Father, He can take life whatever He want to because He is God, so did it sound to you like that I’m sorry for you because you are blind follower…Jesus Christ was not a man therefore Sabbath was not meant for him and also for the Christian from His time and True Christian of this days..bro eli posted so many verses if you were not satisfied or believe on it who do you believe anyway EGW? I hope you will find the truth someday! Just stick on this blog! Thanks anyway…
To Brother Eli,
As I read and read my comments , I do realized now that you may somewhat misenterpreted my intention . I deeply apologized for that . What I really want to convey to Mr. Adventist is that , in my web , I wrote verses , pertaining to Covenant , to Annulment of the Covenant with Moses , Prelude to a New Covenant , The New Covenant through Jesus Christ, and other subjects to be publish tomorrow and days to come , if God’s willing . That is really my intention, just a supplementary verses . I , even want your permission , if you have a time , to visit my website , and DO CORRECT ME , IF the subject I intend to publish , should not be publish. Once again , I do apologized Bro. Eli. No glorying is intended in my part.
sincerly yours,
joel
To: Adventist777
— Brother, please do not call brother eli as Most Reverend or Sir because we are not catholic, is that the way you call in your group?
“But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren.” (Matthew 23:
— Regarding to your assesment that Jesus christ condensed the law to reduce the length of a text by removing unnecessary words or passages or by expressing the content more concisely.
Then it is true brother and Jesus christ condensed that into one word and that is LOVE.
and that’s what Bro. Eli emphasize that the law is obsolete because of love.
It just like a son feeding her old aged mother even without reminding that son or without paying the labor of that son his conscience reminding him to feed and care his mother.
and this is the fulfillment of what GOD said that ” I will put MY LAWS in their mind and write it on their heart and I will be their God and they shall be MY people.”
— I learned whats love about by loving you through the years.
EYES
To inside man
Have you been inside the house of gatherings of the Seventh day adventist? if yes, have you seen any graven images, made in the likeness of God? or performing burnt offerings?
You have an ill-thought of the Seventh day adventist church, the covenant of the seventh day adventist church is not faulty, it is your understanding of that church that is faulty.
The real devotees of this church are not blind followers! Come & visit the Seventh day adventist church
to adventist***,
Too bad for you i would say you only based your observation through the use of pronoun on who wrote the letter to hebrews. This is not how we are taught of, although we ,for ourselves, are also researching but what we have learned here was undeniable that apostle Paul wrote the letter.
That’s why no matter how many times you malign the author you didn’t care. It’s just apollos for you. But i don’t believe you. I knew that It’s been an argument long before i become a member of this congregation on who wrote the letter, but it is only here i realize that paul indeed wrote it. Your ministers can’t discern what the inspired words of God in between letters because you can’t have the right spirit who gathers these words.
The fact that you are not cautious on the servants of God yesterday and today remain who you are in the sight of the brethren and to God. ssD
To Eyes:
you said: please do not call brother eli as Most Reverend or Sir because we are not catholic, is that the way you call in your group?
reply: Ok brother! Thank you for your clarification that your church like us are not using those terminologies.
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you said: and that’s what Bro. Eli emphasize that the law is obsolete because of love
reply: The law of God is not obsolete because it is the eternal word of the Father but because of Love the law was magnified, condensed, stiffened, simplified and universalized so that it becomes a matter of THOUGHT and ATTITUDE of the HEART
And this is the fulfillment of what GOD said that ” I will put MY LAWS in their mind and write it on their heart and I will be their God and they shall be MY people.”
Thank you!
to adventist777,
are you a real member of seventh day adventist? just asking and your doctrines all the laws must follow like law of Moises right?
for sure you know your 27 ah sorry 28 Fundamental doctrines now 2005 revised right?
Heres your No. 20 doctrines I hope you are following this and you can read the verses in the bible especially the old testament, you cannot say to me that u don’t know all of it.
20. SABBATH
The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance to God as Lord of the universe, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God’s kingdom. The Sabbath is God’s perpetual sign of His everlasting covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening (sunset to sunset) on the seventh day of the week, is a celebration of God’s creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Ex. 20:8-11; Luke 4:16; Isa. 56:5-6; 58:13, 14; and 66:22-23; Matt. 12:1-12; Ex. 31:13-17; Eze. 20:12, 20; Deut. 5:12-15; Heb. 4:1-11; Lev. 23:32; Mark 1:32; 2:27-28.)
In Christian era also true Christian today you don’t need all of those commandments of Moises 1 by 1? and thats why God write it in our fleshy heart it dictates automatically to our being, but why still in your doctrines the old teachings of Moises?
If Christ is the head of the Church, Christian thinking is Jesus thinking already and the most complete teachings are with Christ and if you have faith, hope and charity; 1 Cor. 13:4-8,13……in the saying Love conquers all..
Heres the proof that Christian are for Christ only;
Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Colossosians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Collosians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
therefore not include the statutes for people of Israel when time of Moises….
did i say you have graven images in your church? you are concluding without thinking, i’m just implying if you are following the old testament why you removing the others, it means you select also what you want to follow? your doctrines is faulty not us with Gods help we follow all Jesus Christ commandments..thank for staying on this blog..good day!
Brothers in the Church of Christ International, I am still waiting for my latest article for brother eyes to be posted
thank you very much and more power!
How about watching this debate between Bro. Eli and a Seventh Day Adventist Church teacher?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5931434663128066950
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: my response: Are you blind? I explained it already Christ stiffened the law: e.g. 1 “You heard that it was said to the ancients: You shall not murder and whoever murders will be liable for judgment. But I say to you that everyone angry with his brother will be liable for judgment” (Matthew 5:21-22) See? Jesus internalized the law by making it a matter of thoughts and attitude of the heart.
————————-
When Christ stiffened the law, was then there a change in the law or none? Is the law still the same or different? Allow us to show you the big change that you cannot see!
Law of Moses – “Thou shall not kill and hate your enemy” – Would there be a judgement even if Israelites hate in their heart? They must follow that commandment! They are even commanded to hate their enemies and as long as they do not murder, even with hate in their hearts, they are not liable!
Law of Christ – “Thou shall not hate and pray them that persecute you” – are you so blind not to see the change in the law? Also, the judgement is that if you will hate your brother, you will not attain eternal life! You are already judged as a “murderer” by God. Is that the same judgement being rendered in the old covenant?
YOU SAID: “ON these hand all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:40) the law here represent the Pentateuch, 5 books of moses, and the prophets refers to the balance of the holy scriptures that we call the old testament,
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Let us place the verse that you stated and let us even start with verse 39:
Matthew 22:39-40 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets
Is that still the same commandment to be followed by Christians? To love your neighbor as you love yourself? “As you love yourself”? Is that the measure to be followed by Christians? Wrong again brother!
1 John 3:16 “A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another”
“A new commandment” – don’t tell me it’s still the same again! If that were so, then Christ should have never mentioned of the word “new”!
And what would be the basis of loving another? As you love yourself??? Wrong again brother!!! As Christ loved us, thou must love one another! Not as you love yourself!
That is how Christians must love one another! If those two are just the same, then there would have been no need for Christ to show us how to love like that!
Truly, because of unbelief in the Gospel of Christ, foolish people have been ignorant of their own ignorance. They do not even understand what they strongly affirm ..
Fools!
To Adventist777,
Just a little correction to the verse provided, it is John 13:34 ““A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another” and not 1 John 3:16.
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YOU SAID: As what I’ve said in my previous post In luke 16:17, Jesus did not mean all the aspects of law would continue to be enforced.
Let us read the verse you have provided.
Luke 16:17 “and it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail”
It appears that the verse clearly contradicts your own statements. Following your “own interpretation” .. that since God’s laws are eternal, it must be observed forever, why are you now saying that there are things which would not continue to be enforced anymore?
YOUR EXPLANATION: As a matter of fact he stiffened the law. He raised it to be a matter of will or desire rather than of a mere action.like for instance many laws in the Philippines are no longer enforced. Time changes, the society changes and they are not currently needed. but they remain on the books and can be enforced should any administration choose to do so. So it is with much of the law as delivered by Moses.
————————–
That is stupidity again! First of all, God’s law is different from man’s law! How stupid of you to compare the two. The reason why the Philippines is not stable because it’s laws have flaws!
Titus 1:14 “Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.”
Even the apostles said:
Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, we ought to obey God rather than men.
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What you do not understand and accept is the truth that Moses’s law are intended to be just temporal. It will only be imposed under the time limit given by God for it to be observed. But after that, the eternal teachings of Christ will thenafter be the one to be followed.
Galatians 3:24 “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified through faith.”
Galatians 3:25 “But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster”
The law of Moses was really temporal. It was just intended to bring us to Christ but when faith is come, we are no longer under the law or the schoolmaster according to the Bible.
Christians are already under Christ, who is above the law.
To mr. Adventist 777
I hope you will have a change of heart after you read this verses. I titled it THE COVENANT.
COVENANT WITH MOSES :
The Lord our God made a COVENANT with us in Horeb.
The Lord made not this Covenant with our fathers , BUT WITH US , even us , who are all of us here alive this day .
Deuteronomy 5 :2 - 4
And HE DECLARE UNTO YOU HIS COVENANT , which he commanded you to perform , even Ten Commandments; And HE WROTE them upon TWO TABLES OF STONE .
DEUTERONOMY 4 : 13
THE ANNULMENT OF THE COVENANT WITH MOSES :
Now go, write it before them in a table , and note it in a book , that it may be for THE TIME TO COME for ever and ever :
That this is a REBELLIOUS PEOPLE , LYING CHILDREN , children that will not hear THE LAW of the LORD :
ISAIAH 30 : 8-9
But your iniquities have separated between YOU and your GOD , and your sins have hid his face from you , that he will not hear .
ISAIAH 59 : 2
Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their souls delighteth in their abominations.
I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them : Because when I called , NONE DID ANSWER ; When I spake , THEY DID NOT HEAR : But they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I DELIGHTED NOT . ISAIAH 66 : 3 - 4
My tabernacle is spoiled , and my cords are broken : My children are gone forth of me , and they are not : There is none to stretch forth my tent anymore , and to set up my curtains . JEREMIAH 10 : 20
And the Lord said unto me , a CONSPIRACY is found among the men of Judah , and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
they are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which REFUSED TO HEAR MY WORDS ; And they went after other gods to serve them .
THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL and THE HOUSE OF JUDAH have BROKEN MY COVENANT which I made with their fathers.
JEREMIAH 11 : 9 - 10
And I took my STAFF GRACE , and I BROKE IT , ANNULING THE COVENANT which I had made with all the people. So it was ANNULLED ON THAT DAY …
ZECHARIAH 11 : 10 - 11
And it shall come to pass when ye be multiplied and increase in the land , IN THOSE DAYS , saith the Lord , they shall say no more , THE ARK OF THE COVENANT OF THE LORD : Neither shall they remember it , neither shall they visit it ; neither shall be done anymore .
JEREMIAH 3 : 16
I hope , Mr. Adventist that the following verses have enlighten you.
God bless
Joel
to Mr Adventist 777
In Jeremiah 3 :16 makes the Covenant of God with Moses obselete . That’s why there are verses that tells a Prelude to New Covenant , and verses for A NEW Covenant THROUGH CHRIST .
JOEL
Mr. Adventist777,
I am a former SDA member before and all of my family are a devoted SDA in Vancouver and California area. I would like to ask you this questions:
1) What day did the Apostle Paul congregate and preached during his time as a preacher of the Church of God?
2) Did Christ and the Apostles taught, practised, and implement the Tithes to the first generation of Christians?
3) Why is it when you commemorate the SANTA SENA(Holy supper) you do it in the morning?
4) Did Christ and the Apostles forbid the concumation of pork meat and other animals which God forbid Israel to consume?
5) If you believe that the SDA is the true church, where exactly can you find in the Bible that, Christ and his Apostles teach or even mentioned SDA or Adventist whenever the write there respective letters/Epistles?
I have some documents ready to send you regarding the books written by Ellen G. White which proves that, she is a hoaxer and teaching of HER that contradicts the Bible. Post your email address and ill send it there.
2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. KJV
Let the Bible answer itself for it says:
Isa 34:16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.
Ill be waiting for you reply brother. Just to correct you, please don’t address Bro. Eli as reverend. There is one reverend being which the Bible pertains:
Psa 111:9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant forever: holy and REVEREND is his name. KJV
Thats one thing the SDA didn’t taught its followers, not to call any human being REVEREND!
As a member of the true church, The Church of God, Bro. Eli has taught us to give thanks and praise to the almighty one, God Almighty REVEREND is his name.
Amen
TO: Adventist777
You wrote: The law of God is not obsolete because it is the eternal word of the Father but because of Love the law was magnified, condensed, stiffened, simplified and universalized so that it becomes a matter of THOUGHT and ATTITUDE of the HEART
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Brother, You don’t understand what I mean that:
Why because of love the law was become obsolete?
– What I mean brother is when you are in love, you are not already under the law. (and thats why the law is obsolete when you are on that level of faith)
Can you remember that Jesus Christ said that I am a Lord of Sabbath.
But remember also that “Ye are gods”.
and to be god is to be love — ( I already wrote this lined)
and sabbath is made for under the law.
But Jesus Christ said we will be one as in LOVE.
Therefore for being ” ye are gods” we are not already under sabbath or law.
because law is made to reprimands.
but we are in love so there is no need to reprimands us as what I said that;
It just like a son feeding her old aged mother even without REMINDING that son or without paying the labor of that son his CONSCIENCE REMINDING him to feed and care his mother.
and I will add the sample:
It just like an old aged mother that giving her food to his child son even their is no left on her and even her life she is willing to give just to protect his child son.
and this is what Jesus Christ intention to a certain rich man that;
“Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.” (Matthew:19:21)
So Jesus christ did not literally said it that you will sell all your wealth.
But the intention of our Lord Jesus christ said that when you are in love you are willing to give what you will have even your life.
See, the rich man is claiming that he is following the law from his chidhood but still he is not qualified.
But a simple statement that our LOrd Jesus christ said that:
Let the LOVE begin…. and you will be perfect.
“Here we are so close together and I can feel the……”
EYES
(for tony, brother eyes, joel
To tony Santos
Brother tony, it’s ironic! you presented a wonderful exaltation of love above all, of loving one another not hating your enemy as a new commandment and yet you are calling me fools? You are a devotte of your church of love and yet you have a heart of a fanatical INC member.You even borrowed the word of william: “ignorant of their own ignorance” for your own accord to label me!
Yaakob Tzzadik has something for you: “But be ye doers of the word not hearers only deceiving your own self” (James 1:22)
You wrote and quoted the ff:
Law of Moses – “Thou shall not kill and hate your enemy” – Would there be a judgement even if Israelites hate in their heart? They must follow thatcommandment! They are even commanded to hate their enemies and as long as they do not murder, even with hate in their hearts, they
are not liable!
Law of Christ – “Thou shall not hate and pray them that persecute you” – are you so blind not to see the change in the law? Also, the judgement is that if you will hate your brother, you will not attain eternal life! You are already judged as a “murderer” by God. Is that the same judgement
being rendered in the old covenant?
Matthew 22:39-40 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets
1 John 3:16 “A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another”
My response: What’s the problem with the above quotations? It is the fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah
“the lord is well pleased for his righteousness’ sake; HE WILL MAGNIFY THE LAW AND MAKE IT
HONORABLE” (Isaiah 42:21).
And this is the fulfillment of what GOD said in that ” I will put MY LAWS in their mind and write it on their heart and I will be their God and they shall be MY people.”
Because of Love (Jesus) the law was magnified, condensed, stiffened, simplified and universalized so that it becomes a matter of THOUGHT and ATTITUDE of the HEART.
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YOu wrote: “A new commandment” – don’t tell me it’s still the same again! If that were so, then Christ should have never mentioned of the word “new”!
my response: Brother, Jesus magnified the commandments. If I will follow your thought that Matthew 22:40 is obsolete then Paul was wrong when he said:
” And any other commandment are summed up in this sentence, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF, love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:9-10)
“for all the law is fulfilled in one word even on this; THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF (Gal.5:14)
Taken the context, this wonderful passage seems perfectly in step with Jesus, See tony? the fault of your logic! you even
contradicted the confirmation of Paul.
Now, if it is indeed a new commandment does it follow logically that the old one must be OBSOLETE? ABSOLUTELY NOT! why? regarding the law of moses Jesus said:
“For truly I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished (Matthew 6:1
Then of his own words he said:
“heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away (Matthew 24:35)
See there are two, TWO THINGS will not pass away: “the law as delivered by moses (which was stiffined, condensed,
universalized, simplified by Jesus or simply magnified by Jesus as prophecied) and the word delivered by Jesus
the two stand together while heaven and earth endure
Tony, the prophecy (Isaiah 42:21) must be fulfilled or else it will become a failed prophecy. and it was fulfilled by the Messiah! it is clear Jesus christ magnified the law (and not destroyed it) as prophecied by Isaiah (14:21). He accepted
the law as the BASIC STANDARD, He extracted its essence thus distilling, stiffening, universalizing, internalizing and CLARIFYING it. Therefore Jesus Christ did not nullify the law
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YOu wrote: It appears that the verse clearly contradicts your own statements. Following your “own interpretation” .. that since God’s laws are eternal, it must be observed forever,
why are you now saying that there are thingswhich would not continue to be enforced anymore?
my response: Brother, YOu are like the author of hebrew,- inserting some words not part of the original message- Where did I say that It must be observed forever? As far as I remember I said: God is eternal and therefore his words is eternal. From my previous post:
“It is clear two thing will not pass away: The law as delivered by Moses and the word delivered byJesus. The two stand together while heaven and earth endure. This is what we should expect of words having God as their common origin. THE WORDS OF THE ETERNAL GOD MUST THEMSELVES BE ETERNAL.”
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you wrote: That is stupidity again! First of all, God’s law is different from man’s law! How stupid of you to compare the two. The reason why the Philippinesis not stable because it’s laws have flaws!
my response: Let me follow your argument, you mean that the Law of God given to Moses have flaws and thus it must be nullified? If that is true then God is a liar because his prophet said:
“For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light (Proverb 6:23)
“The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; the statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart, the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
(Psalm 19:7-
Which was verified unknowingly by st. paul
The law is holy (Rom 7:12)
The LAW is spiritual (Rom 7:14)
The Law is Good (Rom 7:16)
So, tony is the Law worketh wrath, Is it the law of sin and death? And can we say that from the law comesthe knowledge of sin? God forbid!
If not , then why do you like to nullify it?
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You wrote and quoted: :The law of Moses was really temporal. It was just intended to bring us to Christ but when
faith is come, we are no longer under the law or theschoolmaster according to the Bible. Galatians 3:24 “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we mightbe justified through faith.” Galatians 3:25 “But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster”
my response: If the law was bring us to Jesus how could that mean we should then disobey it? how could thatmean that it has no relevance anymore? tell me!
if the law is our schoolmaster and so it is the tutor to us, and yet at the same time the law is also a curse for us. How can it be? How is it possible? One seems good (schoolmaster) and the other bad (curse). Make up your mind!
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to Eyes
Brother I love that song ” Let the love begin”
Brother,the essence of your previous post was noted on the other hand my previous post was in accordance to the viewpoint that I was trying to inculcate since the start of this discussion. And I highly appreciated your effort and time you had exerted, your reply was noted. You touched my heart
when you talked about old aged mother that giving her food to his child son even their is no left on her and vice versa, it is a wonderful example of love in action.
Brother, By truly loving means obeying the lord, we have to follow Jesus. We need to work for our salvation, it is not a free gift. We have to work for it. follow the commandment as Jesus taught us, in short we have to renounce many things including the love of our life, we need to carry our own cross and follow him. And therefore those only that endure will be saved. (mark 13:13)
“for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned (matthew 12:37)
“A person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone” ( James 2:24)
You wrote: See, the rich man is claiming that he is following the law from his chidhood but stillhe is not qualified.
my response: the rich man as what you and I had empasized love his life more than God. He did not actually follow the entire law. Jesus said: “Sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven and come follow me, the man could have done this only if he had truly loved God and hated his life in this world. If he truly loved God he would have been keeping the 1st, 2nd and 3rdcommandment. If he had truly loved his neighbor as he claimed, he would not have been coveting his neighbor’s possessions and so would have been obedient to have the 10th commandment.
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to Joel
Joel wrote: In Jeremiah 3 :16 makes the Covenant of God with Moses obselete . That’s why there are verses that tells a Prelude to New Covenant , and verses for A NEW Covenant THROUGH CHRIST
Christ to Joel: “Think not that I have come to abollish the LAW and the PROPHETS; I HAVE COME NOT TO ABOLISH THEM BUT TO FULFILL THEM (Isaiah 42:21). For truly I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, nor a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. WHOEVER THEN
RELAXES ONE OF THE LEAST OF THE COMMMANDMENTS AND TEACHES MEN SO, shall be called LEAST IN THE KINGDOM
OF HEAVEN. but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven
(Matthew 5:17-19))
“think that I have come to abolish the law”
…
“It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the law to become void (Luke 16:17)
“whoever then relaxes one the the least commandments and teaches men so , shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven.
See Joel? The king himself corrected you!
TO: Adventist777
Brother, I thought that we are already in the state of climax of love but why you still talking about the law.
Don’t you believe that the law is only a rule or vehicle into our destiny which is love. ( and to be love is to be gods )
Here is a two rules or vehicles which leads us into our destiny which is called LOVE.
remember brother a rules will become useless if there is no fruit on it.
“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt LOVE the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.” (Matthew 22:37)
“This is the first and great commandment”.(Matthew 22:3
“And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt LOVE thy neighbour as thyself.” (Mt:22:39)
“On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” (Mathew 22:40)
Brother as long as that you still in that vehicles or rules then Jesus Christ still did not expect on you.
But as long as you arrive in your destiny which is LOVE then Jesus Christ expect you by these:
“He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.” (Matthew 13:11)
“Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.” (Matthew 5:13)
“Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.” (Matthew 5:14)
“For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.” (Matthew 13:12)
But these things will not come unless you will not find the righteousness and stay there with patience and practice doing good works with love.
unitil your rhythms will accompanied by this one ” I learned whats love about by loving you through the years”
as what Jesus Christ said:
“Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows. ” (Mathew 10:31)
But even the sparrow know how to flock together how much more the men which more value than sparrow.
To find the righteousness brother is just simple as what Jesus christ said that if the righteousness of our flock is more than to the righteousness of your flock then join in our flock.
“For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. ” (Matthew 5:20 )
EYES
YOU SAID: Brother tony, it’s ironic! you presented a wonderful exaltation of love above all, of loving one another not hating your enemy as a new commandment and yet you are calling me fools? You are a devotte of your church of love and yet you have a heart of a fanatical INC member.You even borrowed the word of william: “ignorant of their own ignorance” for your own accord to label me!
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Brother, I regret to say this but it is not ironic. It’s just that you do not have understanding of the scriptures, that is why you err. Let us prove that:
God himself is love (1John 4:8). But he uses the same word.
Luk 12:20 “But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?”
Christ showed us the real meaning of love. He uses the same word.
Mat 23:19 “Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?”
The apostle Paul is a follower of Christ. He uses the same word and this truly applies to many people who claims to be teachers of the law, but in reality they are not.
Rom 1:22 “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,”
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Be informed that I have nothing personally against you. What we are against with, are the wrong teachings that you spread. Addressing you a fool doesn’t mean that I hate you. I am just compelled to say that for it is the truth, even if it would hurt you. I am doing this in hope that you may be awaken from the stubborness of your heart.
Pro 27:6 “Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.”
A doctor may hurt a patient in an operation, but if that is the only way to save the life of a patient, he has to do it. It is not because he hates the patient for he is actually saving the patient, even if he would hurt him.
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Don’t you know that a Christian may even allow himself to be considered by others as a fool, for Christ’s sake? As long as it will be for the