This is a reply to the comment posted by a certain Mr. Adventist777 regarding my article entitled, “The Old Covenant Can not Sanctify Anymore” . His comment is states:
Mr. Soriano, You said: The Old Covenant Can Not Sanctify Anymore?
Be careful with your mouth preacher! Do not speak great words against the most high. Do not even think to change the Laws of God. (Daniel 7:25)
Mr. Adventist777
Dear Mr. Adventist777,
I am glad you read my blog. I thank you for your time. But let me tell you something frank! Your comments which I had printed above in red are disgusting. I don not blame you because it is somewhat common to Adventists in the guise of following the Ten Commandments to charge people falsely. Maybe, it is the spirit that flows in some members of your congregation like you and Mr. Scott.
When you said, “Be careful with your mouth preacher! Do not speak great words against the most high”, you are in utter defiance of the 9th of the Ten Commandments, which you are hopelessly defending. It is not my mouth which said that the Old Testament can not sanctify or justify anybody anymore. It is the mouth of God!
(Hebrews 8:13) “In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”
It was God who said that He is making a new covenant which made the previous old and destined to vanish away.
Can you not see the verse? Or are you blinded by your fanatical adherence to your church?
To prove that it was God’s mouth who pronounced and said that the former covenant was made old by the new, let us copy another verse from your bible.
(Hebrews 8:6-10) “But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their heart…” emphasis mine in red.
Let us decipher these verses.
(6) “But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.”
If you will notice, the verse speaks of a better covenant. The adjective better is used, grammatically, to compare two different things. The Lord Jesus Christ is the mediator of a better covenant,. meaning, that before he became such, there was a former covenant. What kind of a covenant was the former? Let us read verse 7.
(7) “For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.”
It was the mouth of the apostle Paul or the writer of the book to the Hebrews who said this, not mine. The first covenant, in comparison to the second, was described by Paul as ‘faulty’.
Again, Mr. Adventist777, I want to reiterate that it is not my mouth that said this. Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor (Exodus 20:16). Remember, that is the ninth commandment!
Now, what happened to the ‘faulty’ first covenant?
He said on verse 8.
(8) “For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah…”
The verse said because God found fault in them, God said “I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah…”
It must be understood that the first covenant, which became faulty, was also given to the house of Israel and to the house of Judah. The same nation that received the first covenant will also be the recipient of the new covenant.
What was the first covenant that was given to the house of Israel and the house of Judah?
Let us read verse 9.
(9) “Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.”
The verse said that the second covenant will not be according to the covenant He made with the fathers of the nation of Israel, which God gave them after they were liberated from Egypt.
What was that covenant that was given by God to the Israelites immediately after they left Egypt?
(Deuteronomy 4:13) “And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.”
So, it is crystal clear that the covenant given to the Israelites at Mount Sinai, after they left Egypt, are the Ten Commandments written on two tables of stones.
To prove that this covenant is the Ten Commandments on two tables of stone that was given by God after they left Egypt, let us read Exodus 31:18.
“And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.”
Moses was the recipient of the first covenant to be given to the people of Israel. Jesus Christ will be the minister of the new or the better covenant.
Look closely on the following verses:
(Hebrews 8:5-6) “Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern showed to thee in the mount. But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.”
Now, we know that the term ‘better covenant’ was used to describe the comparison between the covenant received by Moses — which are the Ten Commandments; and the covenant wherein the Lord Jesus Christ is the mediator.
These facts tell us a great truth.
1st Covenant > Moses
Better Covenant > Jesus Christ
In the book of Hebrews, the apostle Paul speaks to the nation of Israel or the Hebrews about “a change”.
(Hebrews 7:12) “For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”
Notice two important facts in the preceding verse: There was a change of priesthood and there was a change of the law.
May I remind you, Mr. Adventist, that I am not the one making the change. This verse was written in the bible even before my great-great grandparents were born. Do not use Daniel 7:25 against me, which your leaders are using to accuse the Catholic Church who, according to them, changed Saturday to Sunday. Catholics will not answer you, but treat me not like them; for I will answer you with the Bible wherever you may be; wherever you may go.
It was the apostle Paul who said that there was a change of the priesthood and the law. What was that priesthood that was changed? It was the priesthood of the Levites — the tribe where Moses came.
(Hebrew 7:5) “And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham…”
It was this priesthood that was commanded by God to collect ten percent (10%). I know that Seventh Day Adventists now vehemently insists that their members give ten percent aside from other offerings; but mind you, these are for the Levitical priest under the priesthood that was ‘changed’.
The priesthood of Christ and the Church of God is the priesthood in the Christian dispensation. This is the replacement of the Levitical priesthood, that was changed.
(1 Peter 2:9) “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light…”
The Church of God was made priest with Christ as the chief.
(Revelation 1:6) “And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.”
(Hebrews 3:1) “Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus…”
Christ as the chief priest of the Church of God who replaced Moses; and his priesthood; and his laws.
(Hebrews 3:2-3) “Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honor than the house.”
Jesus Christ is the best replacement for Moses and his priesthood. Remember, when the priesthood was changed, there was also a need for the change of the law. The laws administered by Moses are the Ten Commandments written on two tables of stones: It is the first covenant; but the new is better. In fact, the Bible called it a better covenant. It is the covenant under the administration of the best priest ever, Our Lord Jesus Christ. The first covenant, compared to the second, is declared faulty. It is not I, who said this, but the Bible.
How do we determine the difference between the two covenants? Making the latter better than the former.
(2 Corinthians 3:6) “Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.”
The New Testament or the new covenant is of the spirit and gives life but, the old are letters and it kills. Which are these letters that kill representing the old covenant or testament?
(2 Corinthians 3:7-8) “But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?”
It is clear, therefore, that the letters that killeth are the letters written and engraven in stones, which are the Ten Commandments — also called “The Old Testament”.
(Hebrews 10:28) “He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses…”
Anybody who transgress the law of Sabbath will be stoned to death.
(Numbers 15:32-36) “And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.”
The new covenant is of the spirit and it gives life. The new covenant is the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ or his gospel.
(john 6:63) “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
The new covenant is not written on stones, but in fleshly tables of the heart.
(2 Corinthians 3:3) “Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.”
It is God the Father Himself that writes the New Covenant in the hearts of Christians.
(Hebrews 8:10) “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people…”
The new covenant is ably administered by the Spirit of God and the apostles. While the former covenant or testament was administered by angels.
(Acts 7:37-38) “This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us…”
(Acts 7:53) “Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.”
Better still; let us discover the root of these two covenants or testaments.
(Galatians 4:22-26) “For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which engendereth to bondage, which is Hagar. For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.”
In this allegory, the two women who bore the two sons of Abraham are the two covenants. One, represented by Hagar, the bondmaid of Sarah: figurative of Mount Sinai, from where the first covenant or the Ten Commandments were given to Moses. The other covenant or mother represents Sarah, a free woman: figurative of Jerusalem above, from whence the New Testament or covenant came — which is the mother of us all: The Christians. So, it is very clear that the mother of ‘us all’ (Christians), according to Paul is not the Ten Commandments or Hagar (whose son was born after the flesh), but, Sarah, the free woman representing Jerusalem above who is the mother of us all — born by promise.
Are there sufficient evidences to prove that the new covenant or testament is far better than the covenant which contain the law on Sabbath?
To be continued…
God Bless.
EFS
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esoriano 
AMEN!!!
We, the members of the Church of God in these times, pray that you, 7th-day loyalists, will open-mindedly read what Bro Eli has been sincerely writing these past 8 posts specifically for you.
Please do not resort to baseless and pointless verbal batterings laced with unfounded accusations >>>>>
(“Be careful with your mouth preacher! Do not speak great words against the most high”)
With God’s help and mercy, Bro Eli has thoroughly explicated what he has been wanting to make you realize through the verses in the Bible.
May God enlighten your hearts and minds as He has with our countless brothers and sisters who are former Adventists themselves.
God bless.
I hope Mr. Adventist777 and the other Adventists out there will be able to read this one. The explanations made by Bro. Eli herewith are very clear and are purely based on the Bible.
the exposition of mr soriano is unbiblical and irrelevant to the context of heb 8: 13.
then you have all the page to ‘retry’ failed SDA reasonings about the topic kabayan!maybe copy and paste Jetur Bkk articles here as well.
I’m looking forward to the continuation of this article!!!
To Adventist777,
There you have it, a taste of a “not your own” medicine!
And Bro. Eli’s medicine is a much “better” medication! A new medicament which replaces the old one that you have which has already expired!
Take the new one and be cured brother! Deny your own righteousness, accept the teaching and be healed.
Your expired medicine kills according to the gospel!
Humble yourself and accept the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ being preached by the only sensible preacher in our time.
i think these spiritual battle is much great if it will be shown in a Telivision Program…
Members of Church of God Vs. Seventh day adventist..
TO: Mr. Adventist777
You wrote: Mr. Soriano, You said: The Old Covenant Can Not Sanctify Anymore?
Be careful with your mouth preacher! Do not speak great words against the most high. Do not even think to change the Laws of God. (Daniel 7:25)
————————————————————————–
Brother, what Brother Eli said is absolutely true.
If there is a word more than “change” then it is better to use that if it is the only way that a dead soul will make alive.
If we will based on a grading system the old covenant is just a passing grade or within a passing score or in a level it just only an elementary level for an elementary society. Why?
Because:
A flesh without spirit is dead.
A good works without faith is dead
A righteousness without love is dead
A house which build in a sand is dead or fool.
Remember brother Jesus christ is asking you in this way.
And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.” (Mark 3:4)
or in short.
Which is better, to do good sincerely from your heart?, or by observing it?. or by doing it just only for the sake of completion?.
Remember again brother what Jesus christ said.
“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt LOVE the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.” (Matthew 22:37)
“This is the first and great commandment”.(Matthew 22:38)
“And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt LOVE thy neighbour as thyself.” (Mt:22:39)
“On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” (Mathew 22:40)
In short the dividing factor brother is LOVE and that is the different between the two covenants.
Therefore when you are in love it does not necessarily that you always reminded about the law or any good things or ceremoial things to be done.
It just like a son feeding her old aged mother even without reminding that son or without paying the labor of that son his conscience reminding him to feed and care his mother because of love.
and that is the greatest work and trait which can make a christian sanctify.
EYES
Mr. Adventist777,
First, I am truly glad that your comments has made Bro. Eli explain about the covenant. It is as if a new book of knowledge has been opened to those who have been painstakingly waiting for new issues and topics from him.
Let those who differ in faith (like us) open their eyes. I guess this blog is truly for those with open mind and not for religious fanatics. We all want salvation in the coming of Jesus Christ and I don’t think there is anything wrong with what he (Bro. Eli) is saying. Instead, we should learn from him because reading his articles has truly explained things which I for one never thought of before.
Let him preach… Let us read and learn.
Bro. Eli,
Thank you for unselfishly sharing your knowledge in the Bible. Please continue to write so that we may learn more about God and find our way to eternal life!
More Power and God Bless…
Amazing!…bro. Eli. Truly God loves us very much because we have you who teaches us the mystery of the gospel of Christ. I always pray to God who is able to keep us from falling that He will always keep you where ever you go. ssD
cool sir.
To Mr. Adventist777
You should prepare all your questions! The more you ask the more you will learn.
Mr. Adventist777,
Search any preacher on our time wherein you can ask and can honestly answer all your questions in the bible and i’m sure you cannot find. Brother Eli is not speaking from his own words but from God’s words. If you cannot accept the truth that the old covenant cannot sanctify anymore then you’re anti christ. You do not believe on what God said.
Don’t waste your time brother… time’s getting shorter.. Very soon you’ll realize that our Lord Jesus Christ is calling you.. Just open your heart and mind.. Don’t harden your heart and be fanatic on your false religion..
Matthew 11:29-30 “Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
Don’t wait for the time that you’ll blame yourself..
Everyone’s welcome to be part of the true church which is the Church of God..
I Corinthians 1:1-2 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, Unto the CHURCH OF GOD which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in CHRIST JESUS, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
I Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the CHURCH of the Thessalonians WHICH IS IN GOD THE FATHER AND IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thanks brother Eli for sharing us God’s words..
To God be the glory!!! ssD..
hello JP_030405,
There was already a taped debate between Bro. Eli and Mr. Vickers, an adventist.
The video can be found at http://www.theoldpath.tv
> Click for the link “Bro. Eliseo Soriano vs Mr. Mitch Vickers” under “Featured Videos” at the bottom-side right.
or…
> search for the keyword “Vickers”
… Enjoy watching!
To Mr. Adventist777 & Mr. Scott:
I encourage you to ask your high ranking preacher and invite all your members to have a live formal debate on popular television.
defend your Seventh Day Aventist Church is the true church.
and we will defend that you are not. And as members of Church of God International is the true Church according to the Bible. Our preacher is always ready 24/7.
Isaiah 1:18 (KJV)
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Mr. Adventist777,
You should have prepared your evidences before charging accusations.
Now it seems that you are the one ignorant of the bible.
May God open your mind and see the truth. I don’t blame you for being ignorant. I was more stupid during my 30 years of life here on earth!
May you see the light!
Mr.adventist777
It’s not your fault why you have said such thing…
Because you only express what you have heard from your preacher…
But next time, please don’t be hasty in saying things that you don’t understand..
Because you just don’t know who’s your dealing with…
May this be a lesson to you…
To God be the Glory…
to mr. adventist***, Scott & Anthony,
if you only knew that it’s much better to follow the law of Christ than the law of moises because it is laid on better promises. If you only knew that sin has no power over it because Jesus had triumphantly won at the cross. The power of sin has no dominion over the grace of God. That’s why his yoke is easy. We all have the true sabbath unto him.
The new covenant can save anyone through our lord Jesus but former can not. That’s why during configuration of our Jesus in the mount with three apostles suggested to put up three tabernacles one for Elias, one for moises, and one for Jesus, God rebuked them and said to hear his Son.
The ministers of the SDA clearly doesn’t want to listen to Jesus until now. Because of their foolishness, They have infected many people to rally behind them. Surely, they aren’t like the three apostles who fearfully bowed to the ground and obeyed God. If that is the case whom are they?…I will not continue my deduction yet. I want those individual who is on their side to answer this. ssD
to mister adventist777
he he he
ignorant of the law excuses no one
ignorant in the bible you maybe excused by God
but ignoring what was heard to brother eli could make you
as “adventist666”
go back to start
and always ask brother eli about what you need to learn specially in saving your soul, take note its free
free=(libre, in our very own language)
and we are always waiting for your follow up try again maybe next time you may have your points
try it, try it again until you die theres no harm in trying
ok ill give you a hint, why not gather all adventist pastors, ministers or prophets (if you have)all over the world and have a devate with brother eli alone
pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee….
Adventist members must start the exodus! leave your false belief , denounce your membership from that church founded by Ellen G. White and cohorts and join us in the true church. Take The Old Path and let Bro Eli with God’s help show you the way to salvation.
Mr. adventist777
Close your eyes… Sometimes you have to close your eyes to see the Light…
Bro. Eli… Your the man.. God bless you always…
note: To Minister Soriano and all members of the church of God international, pardon me, I was just so shocked when I read your minister preaching that the eternal covenant of God was already obsolete or was changed. It was only an outburst of emotion on my part. My apology!
Most Reverend minister Soriano you quoted:
“But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator
of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first
covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when
I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took
them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in
my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I
will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws
into their mind, and write them in their heart…” emphasis mine in red.
Hebrews 8:13) “In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth
and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”
———————————————————-
my response: Sir, in the above quotation from Hebrews 8:8-10, the author quotes the passage from Jeremiah where God mention of a new covenant. This passages reads:
“Behold the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not according to the covenant that I made with their
fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenantwhich they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord, but this is the covenant that I willmake with the house of Israel after those days, says the lord: i will put MY LAWS in their mind
and write IT on their heart and I will be their god and they shall be MY people ( Jeremiah 31:31-33)
But sir, look to what the author draws from the above prophecy
“In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.”
While from the prophecy of Jeremiah there is anything (nothing) old or obsolete mention with the law of Moses. While the author put his own ideas on the prophecy saying that “waxeth old and is ready to vanish avay”….
On the contrary God says: …” THIS is the covenant that i will make with the house of Israel….I will put MY LAWS in their mind and write them on their hearts……”
So, The new covenant is not a new and different law . and to percieve it instinctively Israel will be given a covenant a new heart that will know all of God’s law.
The author of hebrew started an erroneous presupposition that there must exist a new covenant since the previous
one must be old and obsolete, But this assumption is false as we have seen in the prophecy of Jeremiah.
Jesus christ will never slay the torah . Since it is an eternal
covenant. In truth, he will bring it to the nations as prophecied(Isaiah 2:4; Zecharia 8:2; 14: 16-19) The law will never pass away or become void. Remember again the prophecy of Prophet Isaiah “the lord is well pleased for his righteousness’ sake; HE WILL MAGNIFY THE LAW AND MAKE IT HONORABLE” (Isaiah 42:21).
“If you would enter life, Keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17)
“Think not that I have come to abollish the LAW and the PROPHETS; I HAVE COME NOT TOABOLISH THEM BUT TO FULFILL THEM (Isaiah 42:21). For truly I sayto you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, nor a dot, will pass from the law untill all is accomplished. WHOEVER THEN RELAXES ONE OF THE LEAST OF THE COMMMANDMENTS AND TEACHES MEN SO, shall be called LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great
in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 5:17-19))
Here sir, To fulfill them means like this metaphor- Jesus took an old house then he fully refurbished and completed it so that it lacked nothing. Take note he ended with the same house that was there at the beggining, yet significantly strengthened.
Here sir, relaxation, loosening of the law is never the goal of Jesus who aimed to do the opposite by tightening it and bring it in accord which has been the law of the Father from the beginning
……For truly I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished….
“It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the law to become void (Luke 16:17)
Jesus came to magnified the law, as he did in the sermon on the Mount when he repeatedly selected certain laws and said: You have heard that it has been said….But i say unto you… in each case he stiffined the law, making it more rigid than it had been while also saying words of condemnation
on those who would relax it.
For example:
He stiffined the law: e.g. 1 “You heard that it was said to the ancients: You shall not murder and whoever murders will be liable for judgment. But I say to you that everyone angry with his brother will be liable for judgment” (Matthew 5:21-22)
e.g. 2 : “You have heard that it was said, “You shall not commit adultery.” but I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed
adultery with hera in his heart (Matthew 5:27-28)
e.g. 3: You have heard that it was said: “An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth,” and Jesus stiffens it by saying : “Do not resist one who is evil (Matthew 5:38, 39)
Sir, we can only fully understand the stiffening of the law if we can grasp the message of Jesus in the following statement: ” Whoever loves his life loses it, but whoever hate his life in this world will keep it for life eternal”
He simplified the law : e.g. 1. ” So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets” (Matthew 7:12)
e.g. 2 “And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said to him, “What is written in the law? how do you read?, and he answeredYou shall love the lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your strenght
and with all your mind and your neighhbor as yourself and he said to him “You have answered right
do this, and you will live” (luke 10:25-28)
He condensed the law: “Teacher, what sort of commandment is great in the law? So he said to himand all your mind, you will love the lord your God in all your heart and in all your life.
This is the great and first commandment, the second is like it, You will love your neighbor as yourself. In these two commanments hang all the law and the prophets. (matthew 26:36-39)
Here sir, it does not represent a new law, because it comes from the same law.
In summation: Jesus christ condensed the law to its essence. He also internalized the law by making it a matter of thoughts and attitude of the heart. so it is applicable to all cultures (not only to the jews ) and circumstances. He definitely did not abolish, destroy the law of moses neither bring it to an end.
Now, let us go back to Daniel 7:25
“And he shall speak great words against the most high, and shall wear out the saints of the most
hight, and think to changes times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until
a time and times and the dividing of times”
Who’s he? who speak great words against the most high?
who wear out the saints of the most high?
Who changed the laws? …….who nullified the law?
“Truly, truly, I say unto you he who does not enter the sheepfold by the doorbut climbs in by another way, is a thief and a robber; but he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens; the sheep hear his voice and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him,
for they do not know the voice of strangers” (john 10:1-5)
Who’s he? what is that stranger? Who climbs in by another way? who is not part of the fold?
“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not
prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock.” (matthew 7:22-24)
Who’s he who called our Lord Jesus Christ, Lord, lord, lord many times, too many to count while at the same time disobeying our lord?
Who’s this man who boast that He labored more abundantly ? NOT the disciples of Jesus why? the apostles of Jesus were being taught of humility, simplicity and modestly “do not let the left hand know what the right hand is doing”, meaning they will never boast for their works as fishers of men. let God himself appreciate their works.
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jt dxb wrote: oh yes! the young man was following the law hmm… but why did he went away sorrowful? he was following the law as mr. adventist were saying.
Mat 19:20 The young man said to Him, I have kept all these things from my youth up; what do I lack yet?
my response: why? because He did not actually follow the entire law. What lack I yet? Jesus said: “Sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven and come follow me, the man could have done this only if he had truly loved God and hated his life in this world. If he truly loved God he would have been keeping the 1st, 2nd and 3rd commandment. If he had truly loved his neighbor as he claimed, he would not have been coveting his neighbor’s possessionsand so would have been obedient to have the 10th commandment.
“And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said to him, “What is written in the law? how do you read?, and he answered You shall love the lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your strenght
and with all your mind and your neighhbor as yourself and he said to him “You have answered right
do this, and you will live” (luke 10:25-28)
See? Jesus condensed the entire law without losing its essence.
………Jt dxb do this and you will live!……..
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: The author of hebrew started an erroneous presupposition that there must exist a new covenant since the previous one must be old and obsolete, But this assumption is false as we have seen in the prophecy of Jeremiah.
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Who are you to say that the author of Hebrew started an erroneous presupposition? Shame on you! By such statement, you are truly going against the real authorities of the Gospel and that makes you an enemy of Christ!
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
I would rather believe Paul, a minister in the Church of God who is acknowledged by his co-apostles, rather your leader, who is a woman that has truly misled you. What the Bible says about your kind is very true.
Isa 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.
Is your leader, Ellen G. White, a woman? Answer that! I just hope that you will not accuse Isaiah also of making an erroneous presuppositon as well.
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Also, the Apostle John said that Christ broke the Sabbath. Don’t tell me John also made an erroneous presupposition about what Christ did.
Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
According to John, Christ clearly broke the Sabbath! If Sabbath must be observed, why did Christ broke the Sabbath ??? Answer that !!!
To Adventist777
YOU STATED: “Think not that I have come to abollish the LAW and the PROPHETS; I HAVE COME NOT TO ABOLISH THEM BUT TO FULFILL THEM
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Which law must Christ fulfill? The Law of Moses? So stupid! That law is not intended for him! Even for a newly born child, you can never command such laws! Should you tell a newly born child “thou shall not kill”? Much more with Christ! Stupid!
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
Is Christ righteous? Answer that! If your answer is yes, then the law of Moses is truly not intended for Christ!
————
Bear in mind that there are many laws being mentioned in the scriptures! Do not hastily conclude that it only pertains to the law of Moses.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
This is just for your information.
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Which law then must Christ fulfill? Definitely those which are commanded for him to fulfill “CONCERNING HIM”! But it is clear that it is not the law of Moses intended for Israel because it was not intended for a righteous man.
To prove this:
Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
You see? “CONCERNING ME”! Why mention that term if Christ would be fulfilling the same law that Israel must follow?
Even in the book of Psalms there are things written concerning Christ that he must fulfill. Let us prove one prophecy that he must fulfill “CONCERNING HIM”.
Psa 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
Is this included in the 10 Commandments or rather a prophecy “CONCERNING CHRIST” that he must fulfill?
If Christ would be fulfilling the same 10 Commandments given by Moses intended for Israel, then there wouldn’t have been a need for Christ to mention “all things must be fulfilled … “CONCERNING ME”
Even a grade schooler who is in his right sense of thinking could easily understand that. Sadly, foolish religious fanatics won’t be able to, unless they humble themselves and admit their own errors in the sight of God.
Read Bro. Eli’s articles again and again brother. Stop being a blashphemer, repent and may God have mercy on your soul.
To Adventist777,
Thanks to your time and making the discussion flow.
But never address Bro. Eli again as “Most Reverrend Minister Soriano.” Bro. Eli cannot accept this title, and we the members, cannot either.
just to prove your point you even edited the verses:
( Jeremiah 31:31-33) Behold the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, NOT ACCORDING to the covenant that I made with their
fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenantwhich they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord, but this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the lord: I will put MY LAWS in their mind
and write IT on their heart and I will be their God and they shall be MY people.
you wrote: On the contrary God says: …” THIS is the covenant that i will make with the house of Israel….I will put MY LAWS in their mind and write them on their hearts……”
And you concluded, without the aide of the scriptures, of course……
So, The new covenant is not a new and different law . and to percieve it instinctively Israel will be given a covenant a new heart that will know all of God’s law.
BE CAREFUL ,mr adventist:
Pro 30:6 Do not add to His Words, lest He reprove you and you be found a liar.
Rev 22:18 For I testify together to everyone who hears the Words of the prophecy of this Book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add on him the plagues that have been written in this Book.
Rev 22:19 And if anyone takes away from the Words of the Book of this prophecy, God will take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which have been written in this Book.
you also wrote: The author of hebrew started an erroneous presupposition that there must exist a new covenant since the previous
one must be old and obsolete, But this assumption is false as we have seen in the prophecy of Jeremiah.
you’re having problems with St. Paul’s epistles ? so the prophecy of Jeremiah is more correct (just reading it the way you want it!).
To inside man:
you wrote: how about you, are you doing that way? or you just observing it by mouth! and the Israelites burn animals for offerings are you doing it now also? if not even for the real people sabbath keeper during those time it will not pass your doings now, simple matter you cannot follow 100 percent what they did before, so how can you be true to yourself and your church?
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Can you give me a verse proving that Jesus nullifed doing sabbath? Jesus just molded it.
“The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath” (mark 2:27)
And so , anytime mercy arises, you can perform good deeds even when it is the day of Sabbath. It is lawful to do good on the sabbath. (Matthew 12:9-14)
Inside man, why would I burn animals for offerings in the first place? Is God delighted on them?
Perhaps, you are all ill-informed of the real follower of the Seventh day adventist church. YOu see, your views of this church are faulty!
You’re really not careful on your statements. After bursting your emotion as you’ve said against our big brother, You blasted another false accusations to apostle Paul when writing,… “The author of hebrew started an erroneous presupposition that there must exist a new covenant since the previous
one must be old and obsolete, But this assumption is false as we have seen in the prophecy of Jeremiah…” You didn’t bro. Eli as of now, but the more i noticed you knew nothing about apostle. And yet you even wrote worst, baseless drama of your wild imaginations against him. Your digging deeper pit for own grave. Let just see how bro. Eli corrects you. ssD
to mr. adventist***,
This is your injection of your own idea. May i re-write it,… “Here sir, To fulfill them means like this metaphor- Jesus took an old house then he fully refurbished and completed it so that it lacked nothing. Take note he ended with the same house that was there at the beggining, yet significantly strengthened.
Here sir, relaxation, loosening of the law is never the goal of Jesus who aimed to do the opposite by tightening it and bring it in accord which has been the law of the Father from the beginning…”
You are basing your context from your own view. This view is not acceptable to me. You’ve tied up with imagination that never exist in the bible. “Tightening, relaxation, loosening and using your methaphor to put Jesus into your own situation. O, common!..ssD
to adventist***,
It’s nice to see you apologized, But isn’t that ironic after apologizing you hit another servant of God who is Paul. I believed Paul wrote the letter adressed to hebrews and you were downgrading him. I have high regard with Paul because he was so blessed that he was caught up in the third heaven to hear unspeakable things that no man should utter. You are nothing compared to him in terms of wisdom and love he offered to the Church of God. too bad for you?!….ssD
Otan: Thanks to your time and making the discussion flow.
my response: Brother thank you! it is my pleasure to be here. We are only here for spiritual talk not for any sort of unnecessary anger.
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jt dxb :just to prove your point you even edited the verses
my response:in Jeremiah 31:31-35? i did not! compare it! It’s the author of Hebrew who added/put the word “waxeth old and is ready to vanish away” which you cannot find there.
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To tony santos:
you wrote: Should you tell a newly born child “thou shall not kill”? Much more with Christ! Stupid!
my response: Are you blind? I explained it already Christ stiffened the law: e.g. 1 “You heard that it was said to the ancients: You shall not murder and whoever murders will be liable for judgment. But I say to you that everyone angry with his brother will be liable for judgment” (Matthew 5:21-22) See? Jesus internalized the law by making it a matter of thoughts and attitude of the heart.
you wrote: Which law then must Christ fulfill? Definitely those which are commanded for him to fulfill “CONCERNING HIM”! But it is clear that it is not the law of Moses intended for Israel
because it was not intended for a righteous man.
my response: tony bear in mind that Jesus often paired the law with the prophets. Let us quote from him
“ON these hand all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:40)
the law here represent the Pentateuch, 5 books of moses, and the prophets refers to the balance of the holy scriptures that we call the old testament, the Psalms of david sometimes distinguished from the prophets.
Do you agree? Well, i dont care if you’ll agree or not but both Jesus and Paul agree on this distinction
Though there is also another law, which is known in the gospel as the “traditions of the elders” mentioned by
Jesus in matthew 15.
So tony regarding the law of moses he said:
“For truly I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished (Matthew 6:18)
Then of his own words he said: “heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away (Matthew
24:35)
See there are two, TWO THINGS will not pass away: “the law as delivered by moses (which was stiffined, condensed,
universalized, simplified by Jesus or simply magnified by Jesus as prophecied) and the word delivered by Jesus
the two stand together while heaven and earth endure. Therefore your quotation in Luk 24:44 “Concerning me” is True also. do you understand now tony? Tony, do not underestimate God. He is eternal and therefore His Words must be Eternal.
As what I’ve said in my previous post In luke 16:17, Jesus did not mean all the aspects of law would continue to be enforced. As a matter of fact he stiffened the law. He raised it to be a matter of will or desire rather than of a mere action.like for instance many laws in the Philippines are no
longer enforced. Time changes, the society changes and they are not currently needed. but they remain on the books and can be enforced should any administration choose to do so. So it is with much of the law as delivered by Moses.
IN summation: Jesus indeed maintains the law of moses without loss of jot or title as the law for servant under his administration of the kingdom of God. He condensed it to its essence and stiffened it.
Clear?
Dear Mr. Adventist ,
if all this verses which my friends have wrote to you , and still you don’t get it, try at my website
To leo:
I believed Paul wrote the letter adressed to hebrews and you were downgrading him.
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Leo, the author of hebrew does not identify himself though
the thought is similar to Paul’s message.
A good candidate is Apollos- leader early messianic movement, mentioned 10x in the New testament, 2x in the books of ACTS, 8X by Paul himself.
“Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am paul” or “I am of Apollos, or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ” (I cor. 1:12)
Look! apollos is the closest to paul in the above quoted verse
Paul thinks highly of Apollos, b’coz latter always agrees with his doctrine
St. Paul style in writing is different, he always refer to himself with the use of personal pronoun like “I”, “ME”, “MY”, and “MINE. so Paul is not the author of book of Hebrew.
To Adventist_ _ _,
Thanks to your time and making the discussion flow.
But never address Bro. Eli again as “Sir” also… Bro. Eli cannot accept this title, and we the members, cannot either.
to Adventist triple 7,
so it means you just follow exact 10 commandments of Moises that written on two tablet of stone? I guess you know all the laws aside from 10 given to moises for your information :
the ten have counterpart laws for Deutoronomy 5:8 Thou shall not make any graven image, or any likeness…..
Exodus 20:23 Ye shall not make with me god of silver, neither shall make unto you………………
Exodus 20:24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shall sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.
It is clear that Israelites do this offerings, but did I say that they were blessed because of this doings you can ask bro. eli…that will be another topic.
The 10 commandments of Moises was only meant for the Israel that have been slave in Egypt..
Deutoronomy 5: 1-4 , The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
And for Sabbath keepers there are many counterpart laws also just read Exodus 22:16 continue up to 23, are all this must followed one by one? So therefore in Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make in the house of Israel; I will put my law in their inward parts,…….And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother,………..2 Corinthians 3:3 “Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.”
Did anyone on this forum tell that the Sabbath nullified / void by Jesus Christ? He is the Lord of the Sabbath ( above the law ) like God the Father, He can take life whatever He want to because He is God, so did it sound to you like that I’m sorry for you because you are blind follower…Jesus Christ was not a man therefore Sabbath was not meant for him and also for the Christian from His time and True Christian of this days..bro eli posted so many verses if you were not satisfied or believe on it who do you believe anyway EGW? I hope you will find the truth someday! Just stick on this blog! Thanks anyway…
To Brother Eli,
As I read and read my comments , I do realized now that you may somewhat misenterpreted my intention . I deeply apologized for that . What I really want to convey to Mr. Adventist is that , in my web , I wrote verses , pertaining to Covenant , to Annulment of the Covenant with Moses , Prelude to a New Covenant , The New Covenant through Jesus Christ, and other subjects to be publish tomorrow and days to come , if God’s willing . That is really my intention, just a supplementary verses . I , even want your permission , if you have a time , to visit my website , and DO CORRECT ME , IF the subject I intend to publish , should not be publish. Once again , I do apologized Bro. Eli. No glorying is intended in my part.
sincerly yours,
joel
To: Adventist777
— Brother, please do not call brother eli as Most Reverend or Sir because we are not catholic, is that the way you call in your group?
“But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren.” (Matthew 23:8)
— Regarding to your assesment that Jesus christ condensed the law to reduce the length of a text by removing unnecessary words or passages or by expressing the content more concisely.
Then it is true brother and Jesus christ condensed that into one word and that is LOVE.
and that’s what Bro. Eli emphasize that the law is obsolete because of love.
It just like a son feeding her old aged mother even without reminding that son or without paying the labor of that son his conscience reminding him to feed and care his mother.
and this is the fulfillment of what GOD said that ” I will put MY LAWS in their mind and write it on their heart and I will be their God and they shall be MY people.”
— I learned whats love about by loving you through the years.
EYES
To inside man
Have you been inside the house of gatherings of the Seventh day adventist? if yes, have you seen any graven images, made in the likeness of God? or performing burnt offerings?
You have an ill-thought of the Seventh day adventist church, the covenant of the seventh day adventist church is not faulty, it is your understanding of that church that is faulty.
The real devotees of this church are not blind followers! Come & visit the Seventh day adventist church
to adventist***,
Too bad for you i would say you only based your observation through the use of pronoun on who wrote the letter to hebrews. This is not how we are taught of, although we ,for ourselves, are also researching but what we have learned here was undeniable that apostle Paul wrote the letter.
That’s why no matter how many times you malign the author you didn’t care. It’s just apollos for you. But i don’t believe you. I knew that It’s been an argument long before i become a member of this congregation on who wrote the letter, but it is only here i realize that paul indeed wrote it. Your ministers can’t discern what the inspired words of God in between letters because you can’t have the right spirit who gathers these words.
The fact that you are not cautious on the servants of God yesterday and today remain who you are in the sight of the brethren and to God. ssD
To Eyes:
you said: please do not call brother eli as Most Reverend or Sir because we are not catholic, is that the way you call in your group?
reply: Ok brother! Thank you for your clarification that your church like us are not using those terminologies.
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you said: and that’s what Bro. Eli emphasize that the law is obsolete because of love
reply: The law of God is not obsolete because it is the eternal word of the Father but because of Love the law was magnified, condensed, stiffened, simplified and universalized so that it becomes a matter of THOUGHT and ATTITUDE of the HEART
And this is the fulfillment of what GOD said that ” I will put MY LAWS in their mind and write it on their heart and I will be their God and they shall be MY people.”
Thank you!
to adventist777,
are you a real member of seventh day adventist? just asking and your doctrines all the laws must follow like law of Moises right?
for sure you know your 27 ah sorry 28 Fundamental doctrines now 2005 revised right?
Heres your No. 20 doctrines I hope you are following this and you can read the verses in the bible especially the old testament, you cannot say to me that u don’t know all of it.
20. SABBATH
The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance to God as Lord of the universe, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God’s kingdom. The Sabbath is God’s perpetual sign of His everlasting covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening (sunset to sunset) on the seventh day of the week, is a celebration of God’s creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Ex. 20:8-11; Luke 4:16; Isa. 56:5-6; 58:13, 14; and 66:22-23; Matt. 12:1-12; Ex. 31:13-17; Eze. 20:12, 20; Deut. 5:12-15; Heb. 4:1-11; Lev. 23:32; Mark 1:32; 2:27-28.)
In Christian era also true Christian today you don’t need all of those commandments of Moises 1 by 1? and thats why God write it in our fleshy heart it dictates automatically to our being, but why still in your doctrines the old teachings of Moises?
If Christ is the head of the Church, Christian thinking is Jesus thinking already and the most complete teachings are with Christ and if you have faith, hope and charity; 1 Cor. 13:4-8,13……in the saying Love conquers all..
Heres the proof that Christian are for Christ only;
Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Colossosians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Collosians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
therefore not include the statutes for people of Israel when time of Moises….
did i say you have graven images in your church? you are concluding without thinking, i’m just implying if you are following the old testament why you removing the others, it means you select also what you want to follow? your doctrines is faulty not us with Gods help we follow all Jesus Christ commandments..thank for staying on this blog..good day!
Brothers in the Church of Christ International, I am still waiting for my latest article for brother eyes to be posted
thank you very much and more power!
How about watching this debate between Bro. Eli and a Seventh Day Adventist Church teacher?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5931434663128066950
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: my response: Are you blind? I explained it already Christ stiffened the law: e.g. 1 “You heard that it was said to the ancients: You shall not murder and whoever murders will be liable for judgment. But I say to you that everyone angry with his brother will be liable for judgment” (Matthew 5:21-22) See? Jesus internalized the law by making it a matter of thoughts and attitude of the heart.
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When Christ stiffened the law, was then there a change in the law or none? Is the law still the same or different? Allow us to show you the big change that you cannot see!
Law of Moses – “Thou shall not kill and hate your enemy” – Would there be a judgement even if Israelites hate in their heart? They must follow that commandment! They are even commanded to hate their enemies and as long as they do not murder, even with hate in their hearts, they are not liable!
Law of Christ – “Thou shall not hate and pray them that persecute you” – are you so blind not to see the change in the law? Also, the judgement is that if you will hate your brother, you will not attain eternal life! You are already judged as a “murderer” by God. Is that the same judgement being rendered in the old covenant?
YOU SAID: “ON these hand all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:40) the law here represent the Pentateuch, 5 books of moses, and the prophets refers to the balance of the holy scriptures that we call the old testament,
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Let us place the verse that you stated and let us even start with verse 39:
Matthew 22:39-40 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets
Is that still the same commandment to be followed by Christians? To love your neighbor as you love yourself? “As you love yourself”? Is that the measure to be followed by Christians? Wrong again brother!
1 John 3:16 “A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another”
“A new commandment” – don’t tell me it’s still the same again! If that were so, then Christ should have never mentioned of the word “new”!
And what would be the basis of loving another? As you love yourself??? Wrong again brother!!! As Christ loved us, thou must love one another! Not as you love yourself!
That is how Christians must love one another! If those two are just the same, then there would have been no need for Christ to show us how to love like that!
Truly, because of unbelief in the Gospel of Christ, foolish people have been ignorant of their own ignorance. They do not even understand what they strongly affirm ..
Fools!
To Adventist777,
Just a little correction to the verse provided, it is John 13:34 ““A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another” and not 1 John 3:16.
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YOU SAID: As what I’ve said in my previous post In luke 16:17, Jesus did not mean all the aspects of law would continue to be enforced.
Let us read the verse you have provided.
Luke 16:17 “and it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail”
It appears that the verse clearly contradicts your own statements. Following your “own interpretation” .. that since God’s laws are eternal, it must be observed forever, why are you now saying that there are things which would not continue to be enforced anymore?
YOUR EXPLANATION: As a matter of fact he stiffened the law. He raised it to be a matter of will or desire rather than of a mere action.like for instance many laws in the Philippines are no longer enforced. Time changes, the society changes and they are not currently needed. but they remain on the books and can be enforced should any administration choose to do so. So it is with much of the law as delivered by Moses.
————————–
That is stupidity again! First of all, God’s law is different from man’s law! How stupid of you to compare the two. The reason why the Philippines is not stable because it’s laws have flaws!
Titus 1:14 “Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.”
Even the apostles said:
Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, we ought to obey God rather than men.
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What you do not understand and accept is the truth that Moses’s law are intended to be just temporal. It will only be imposed under the time limit given by God for it to be observed. But after that, the eternal teachings of Christ will thenafter be the one to be followed.
Galatians 3:24 “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified through faith.”
Galatians 3:25 “But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster”
The law of Moses was really temporal. It was just intended to bring us to Christ but when faith is come, we are no longer under the law or the schoolmaster according to the Bible.
Christians are already under Christ, who is above the law.
To mr. Adventist 777
I hope you will have a change of heart after you read this verses. I titled it THE COVENANT.
COVENANT WITH MOSES :
The Lord our God made a COVENANT with us in Horeb.
The Lord made not this Covenant with our fathers , BUT WITH US , even us , who are all of us here alive this day .
Deuteronomy 5 :2 – 4
And HE DECLARE UNTO YOU HIS COVENANT , which he commanded you to perform , even Ten Commandments; And HE WROTE them upon TWO TABLES OF STONE .
DEUTERONOMY 4 : 13
THE ANNULMENT OF THE COVENANT WITH MOSES :
Now go, write it before them in a table , and note it in a book , that it may be for THE TIME TO COME for ever and ever :
That this is a REBELLIOUS PEOPLE , LYING CHILDREN , children that will not hear THE LAW of the LORD :
ISAIAH 30 : 8-9
But your iniquities have separated between YOU and your GOD , and your sins have hid his face from you , that he will not hear .
ISAIAH 59 : 2
Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their souls delighteth in their abominations.
I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them : Because when I called , NONE DID ANSWER ; When I spake , THEY DID NOT HEAR : But they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I DELIGHTED NOT . ISAIAH 66 : 3 – 4
My tabernacle is spoiled , and my cords are broken : My children are gone forth of me , and they are not : There is none to stretch forth my tent anymore , and to set up my curtains . JEREMIAH 10 : 20
And the Lord said unto me , a CONSPIRACY is found among the men of Judah , and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
they are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which REFUSED TO HEAR MY WORDS ; And they went after other gods to serve them .
THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL and THE HOUSE OF JUDAH have BROKEN MY COVENANT which I made with their fathers.
JEREMIAH 11 : 9 – 10
And I took my STAFF GRACE , and I BROKE IT , ANNULING THE COVENANT which I had made with all the people. So it was ANNULLED ON THAT DAY …
ZECHARIAH 11 : 10 – 11
And it shall come to pass when ye be multiplied and increase in the land , IN THOSE DAYS , saith the Lord , they shall say no more , THE ARK OF THE COVENANT OF THE LORD : Neither shall they remember it , neither shall they visit it ; neither shall be done anymore .
JEREMIAH 3 : 16
I hope , Mr. Adventist that the following verses have enlighten you.
God bless
Joel
to Mr Adventist 777
In Jeremiah 3 :16 makes the Covenant of God with Moses obselete . That’s why there are verses that tells a Prelude to New Covenant , and verses for A NEW Covenant THROUGH CHRIST .
JOEL
Mr. Adventist777,
I am a former SDA member before and all of my family are a devoted SDA in Vancouver and California area. I would like to ask you this questions:
1) What day did the Apostle Paul congregate and preached during his time as a preacher of the Church of God?
2) Did Christ and the Apostles taught, practised, and implement the Tithes to the first generation of Christians?
3) Why is it when you commemorate the SANTA SENA(Holy supper) you do it in the morning?
4) Did Christ and the Apostles forbid the concumation of pork meat and other animals which God forbid Israel to consume?
5) If you believe that the SDA is the true church, where exactly can you find in the Bible that, Christ and his Apostles teach or even mentioned SDA or Adventist whenever the write there respective letters/Epistles?
I have some documents ready to send you regarding the books written by Ellen G. White which proves that, she is a hoaxer and teaching of HER that contradicts the Bible. Post your email address and ill send it there.
2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. KJV
Let the Bible answer itself for it says:
Isa 34:16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.
Ill be waiting for you reply brother. Just to correct you, please don’t address Bro. Eli as reverend. There is one reverend being which the Bible pertains:
Psa 111:9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant forever: holy and REVEREND is his name. KJV
Thats one thing the SDA didn’t taught its followers, not to call any human being REVEREND!
As a member of the true church, The Church of God, Bro. Eli has taught us to give thanks and praise to the almighty one, God Almighty REVEREND is his name.
Amen
TO: Adventist777
You wrote: The law of God is not obsolete because it is the eternal word of the Father but because of Love the law was magnified, condensed, stiffened, simplified and universalized so that it becomes a matter of THOUGHT and ATTITUDE of the HEART
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Brother, You don’t understand what I mean that:
Why because of love the law was become obsolete?
— What I mean brother is when you are in love, you are not already under the law. (and thats why the law is obsolete when you are on that level of faith)
Can you remember that Jesus Christ said that I am a Lord of Sabbath.
But remember also that “Ye are gods”.
and to be god is to be love — ( I already wrote this lined)
and sabbath is made for under the law.
But Jesus Christ said we will be one as in LOVE.
Therefore for being ” ye are gods” we are not already under sabbath or law.
because law is made to reprimands.
but we are in love so there is no need to reprimands us as what I said that;
It just like a son feeding her old aged mother even without REMINDING that son or without paying the labor of that son his CONSCIENCE REMINDING him to feed and care his mother.
and I will add the sample:
It just like an old aged mother that giving her food to his child son even their is no left on her and even her life she is willing to give just to protect his child son.
and this is what Jesus Christ intention to a certain rich man that;
“Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.” (Matthew:19:21)
So Jesus christ did not literally said it that you will sell all your wealth.
But the intention of our Lord Jesus christ said that when you are in love you are willing to give what you will have even your life.
See, the rich man is claiming that he is following the law from his chidhood but still he is not qualified.
But a simple statement that our LOrd Jesus christ said that:
Let the LOVE begin…. and you will be perfect.
“Here we are so close together and I can feel the……”
EYES
(for tony, brother eyes, joel
To tony Santos
Brother tony, it’s ironic! you presented a wonderful exaltation of love above all, of loving one another not hating your enemy as a new commandment and yet you are calling me fools? You are a devotte of your church of love and yet you have a heart of a fanatical INC member.You even borrowed the word of william: “ignorant of their own ignorance” for your own accord to label me!
Yaakob Tzzadik has something for you: “But be ye doers of the word not hearers only deceiving your own self” (James 1:22)
You wrote and quoted the ff:
Law of Moses – “Thou shall not kill and hate your enemy” – Would there be a judgement even if Israelites hate in their heart? They must follow thatcommandment! They are even commanded to hate their enemies and as long as they do not murder, even with hate in their hearts, they
are not liable!
Law of Christ – “Thou shall not hate and pray them that persecute you” – are you so blind not to see the change in the law? Also, the judgement is that if you will hate your brother, you will not attain eternal life! You are already judged as a “murderer” by God. Is that the same judgement
being rendered in the old covenant?
Matthew 22:39-40 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets
1 John 3:16 “A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another”
My response: What’s the problem with the above quotations? It is the fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah
“the lord is well pleased for his righteousness’ sake; HE WILL MAGNIFY THE LAW AND MAKE IT
HONORABLE” (Isaiah 42:21).
And this is the fulfillment of what GOD said in that ” I will put MY LAWS in their mind and write it on their heart and I will be their God and they shall be MY people.”
Because of Love (Jesus) the law was magnified, condensed, stiffened, simplified and universalized so that it becomes a matter of THOUGHT and ATTITUDE of the HEART.
——————————————————————————-
YOu wrote: “A new commandment” – don’t tell me it’s still the same again! If that were so, then Christ should have never mentioned of the word “new”!
my response: Brother, Jesus magnified the commandments. If I will follow your thought that Matthew 22:40 is obsolete then Paul was wrong when he said:
” And any other commandment are summed up in this sentence, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF, love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:9-10)
“for all the law is fulfilled in one word even on this; THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF (Gal.5:14)
Taken the context, this wonderful passage seems perfectly in step with Jesus, See tony? the fault of your logic! you even
contradicted the confirmation of Paul.
Now, if it is indeed a new commandment does it follow logically that the old one must be OBSOLETE? ABSOLUTELY NOT! why? regarding the law of moses Jesus said:
“For truly I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished (Matthew 6:18)
Then of his own words he said:
“heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away (Matthew 24:35)
See there are two, TWO THINGS will not pass away: “the law as delivered by moses (which was stiffined, condensed,
universalized, simplified by Jesus or simply magnified by Jesus as prophecied) and the word delivered by Jesus
the two stand together while heaven and earth endure
Tony, the prophecy (Isaiah 42:21) must be fulfilled or else it will become a failed prophecy. and it was fulfilled by the Messiah! it is clear Jesus christ magnified the law (and not destroyed it) as prophecied by Isaiah (14:21). He accepted
the law as the BASIC STANDARD, He extracted its essence thus distilling, stiffening, universalizing, internalizing and CLARIFYING it. Therefore Jesus Christ did not nullify the law
——————————————————————–
YOu wrote: It appears that the verse clearly contradicts your own statements. Following your “own interpretation” .. that since God’s laws are eternal, it must be observed forever,
why are you now saying that there are thingswhich would not continue to be enforced anymore?
my response: Brother, YOu are like the author of hebrew,- inserting some words not part of the original message- Where did I say that It must be observed forever? As far as I remember I said: God is eternal and therefore his words is eternal. From my previous post:
“It is clear two thing will not pass away: The law as delivered by Moses and the word delivered byJesus. The two stand together while heaven and earth endure. This is what we should expect of words having God as their common origin. THE WORDS OF THE ETERNAL GOD MUST THEMSELVES BE ETERNAL.”
—————————————————————–
you wrote: That is stupidity again! First of all, God’s law is different from man’s law! How stupid of you to compare the two. The reason why the Philippinesis not stable because it’s laws have flaws!
my response: Let me follow your argument, you mean that the Law of God given to Moses have flaws and thus it must be nullified? If that is true then God is a liar because his prophet said:
“For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light (Proverb 6:23)
“The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; the statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart, the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
(Psalm 19:7-8)
Which was verified unknowingly by st. paul
The law is holy (Rom 7:12)
The LAW is spiritual (Rom 7:14)
The Law is Good (Rom 7:16)
So, tony is the Law worketh wrath, Is it the law of sin and death? And can we say that from the law comesthe knowledge of sin? God forbid!
If not , then why do you like to nullify it?
———————————————————————-
You wrote and quoted: :The law of Moses was really temporal. It was just intended to bring us to Christ but when
faith is come, we are no longer under the law or theschoolmaster according to the Bible. Galatians 3:24 “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we mightbe justified through faith.” Galatians 3:25 “But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster”
my response: If the law was bring us to Jesus how could that mean we should then disobey it? how could thatmean that it has no relevance anymore? tell me!
if the law is our schoolmaster and so it is the tutor to us, and yet at the same time the law is also a curse for us. How can it be? How is it possible? One seems good (schoolmaster) and the other bad (curse). Make up your mind!
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to Eyes
Brother I love that song ” Let the love begin”
Brother,the essence of your previous post was noted on the other hand my previous post was in accordance to the viewpoint that I was trying to inculcate since the start of this discussion. And I highly appreciated your effort and time you had exerted, your reply was noted. You touched my heart
when you talked about old aged mother that giving her food to his child son even their is no left on her and vice versa, it is a wonderful example of love in action.
Brother, By truly loving means obeying the lord, we have to follow Jesus. We need to work for our salvation, it is not a free gift. We have to work for it. follow the commandment as Jesus taught us, in short we have to renounce many things including the love of our life, we need to carry our own cross and follow him. And therefore those only that endure will be saved. (mark 13:13)
“for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned (matthew 12:37)
“A person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone” ( James 2:24)
You wrote: See, the rich man is claiming that he is following the law from his chidhood but stillhe is not qualified.
my response: the rich man as what you and I had empasized love his life more than God. He did not actually follow the entire law. Jesus said: “Sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven and come follow me, the man could have done this only if he had truly loved God and hated his life in this world. If he truly loved God he would have been keeping the 1st, 2nd and 3rdcommandment. If he had truly loved his neighbor as he claimed, he would not have been coveting his neighbor’s possessions and so would have been obedient to have the 10th commandment.
———————————————————————-
to Joel
Joel wrote: In Jeremiah 3 :16 makes the Covenant of God with Moses obselete . That’s why there are verses that tells a Prelude to New Covenant , and verses for A NEW Covenant THROUGH CHRIST
Christ to Joel: “Think not that I have come to abollish the LAW and the PROPHETS; I HAVE COME NOT TO ABOLISH THEM BUT TO FULFILL THEM (Isaiah 42:21). For truly I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, nor a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. WHOEVER THEN
RELAXES ONE OF THE LEAST OF THE COMMMANDMENTS AND TEACHES MEN SO, shall be called LEAST IN THE KINGDOM
OF HEAVEN. but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven
(Matthew 5:17-19))
“think that I have come to abolish the law”
…
“It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the law to become void (Luke 16:17)
“whoever then relaxes one the the least commandments and teaches men so , shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven.
See Joel? The king himself corrected you!
TO: Adventist777
Brother, I thought that we are already in the state of climax of love but why you still talking about the law.
Don’t you believe that the law is only a rule or vehicle into our destiny which is love. ( and to be love is to be gods )
Here is a two rules or vehicles which leads us into our destiny which is called LOVE.
remember brother a rules will become useless if there is no fruit on it.
“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt LOVE the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.” (Matthew 22:37)
“This is the first and great commandment”.(Matthew 22:38)
“And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt LOVE thy neighbour as thyself.” (Mt:22:39)
“On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” (Mathew 22:40)
Brother as long as that you still in that vehicles or rules then Jesus Christ still did not expect on you.
But as long as you arrive in your destiny which is LOVE then Jesus Christ expect you by these:
“He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.” (Matthew 13:11)
“Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.” (Matthew 5:13)
“Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.” (Matthew 5:14)
“For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.” (Matthew 13:12)
But these things will not come unless you will not find the righteousness and stay there with patience and practice doing good works with love.
unitil your rhythms will accompanied by this one ” I learned whats love about by loving you through the years”
as what Jesus Christ said:
“Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows. ” (Mathew 10:31)
But even the sparrow know how to flock together how much more the men which more value than sparrow.
To find the righteousness brother is just simple as what Jesus christ said that if the righteousness of our flock is more than to the righteousness of your flock then join in our flock.
“For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. ” (Matthew 5:20 )
EYES
YOU SAID: Brother tony, it’s ironic! you presented a wonderful exaltation of love above all, of loving one another not hating your enemy as a new commandment and yet you are calling me fools? You are a devotte of your church of love and yet you have a heart of a fanatical INC member.You even borrowed the word of william: “ignorant of their own ignorance” for your own accord to label me!
———————–
Brother, I regret to say this but it is not ironic. It’s just that you do not have understanding of the scriptures, that is why you err. Let us prove that:
God himself is love (1John 4:8). But he uses the same word.
Luk 12:20 “But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?”
Christ showed us the real meaning of love. He uses the same word.
Mat 23:19 “Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?”
The apostle Paul is a follower of Christ. He uses the same word and this truly applies to many people who claims to be teachers of the law, but in reality they are not.
Rom 1:22 “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,”
————————-
Be informed that I have nothing personally against you. What we are against with, are the wrong teachings that you spread. Addressing you a fool doesn’t mean that I hate you. I am just compelled to say that for it is the truth, even if it would hurt you. I am doing this in hope that you may be awaken from the stubborness of your heart.
Pro 27:6 “Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.”
A doctor may hurt a patient in an operation, but if that is the only way to save the life of a patient, he has to do it. It is not because he hates the patient for he is actually saving the patient, even if he would hurt him.
—————————-
Don’t you know that a Christian may even allow himself to be considered by others as a fool, for Christ’s sake? As long as it will be for the salvation of others, then so be it.
1Co 4:10 “We are fools for Christ’s sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.”
—————————-
You are falsely accusing me of having a heart of a fanatical INC member. And that is a lie. It’s obvious that you are disobeying the commandment that you claim follow “thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor”.
And you were saying that Christ stiffened the law … Where is the stoning that your fellow members should be doing? The mere fact you are not observing that anymore, proves that the law was truly changed by Christ and not only just stiffened as you claim to say.
Hebrews 7:12 “For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law”
Do you now understand why I am calling you a Fool? I hope and pray that you listen carefully to the Gospel that Bro. Eli, preaches and may God open your heart, if you would also be willing to.
God bless.
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: my response: If the law was bring us to Jesus how could that mean we should then disobey it? how could thatmean that it has no relevance anymore? tell me!
if the law is our schoolmaster and so it is the tutor to us, and yet at the same time the law is also a curse for us. How can it be? How is it possible? One seems good (schoolmaster) and the other bad (curse). Make up your mind!
———————————
First of all, be corrected that we did not say that we have to disobey God’s commandments. It would be foolish for anyone to accuse that of us!
It doesn’t mean that if you do not observe commandments which are not intended for you, you already have to disobey them.
To show you an example:
God have commanded Noah to build an ark. Do we have to observe that because it is a commandment by God? By not observing it, does it mean I am disobeying it? It is God’s commandment but it is not for us to observe. That commandment is for Noah and not for us. Then let that be. Noah is the one who will account for that if he will not do that.
Now, when God gave the 10 commandments to Israel. It is for them to observe but not for Christians. It doesn’t imply that if Christians are not to observe them, they will have to disobey them as well.
For example:
Thou shall not kill – Israelites will be accountable to God if they will disobey that. That was the instruction for them and that is what they need to follow
How about Christians? Is that what they should observe? Let us read 1 John 3:15
1 John 3:15 “Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”
As a Christian follower, my problem is not to hate and that is what I must observe to follow. That is where I will be accountable to God. For if I will disobey that, I will not attain eternal life and for I am considered by God as a murderer. It is not for the reason that I killed somebody but because I hate my brother.
Now, if am observing that commandment intended for me, do you still have to instruct me “not to kill” when in fact I am already following Christ’s commandment “not to hate”? That is illogical. By not hating, I cannot possibly kill. For if I hate, I will not attain eternal life. THat is what is commanded to me by my Christ.
Christians were given a new commandment which is intended for them to observe. They are not anymore under the law of Moses. Let us read in the book of Acts:
Acts 13:39 And by him, all that believe are jsutified from all things, from which ye could not be jsutified by the law of Moses.
Gal. 3:24-25 “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”
Christians are not under the law of Moses. They are under the law of Christ. That is the law that they must follow.
Galatians 6:2 Bear ye another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
———————–
I hope the above is clear. You should really be the one to make up your mind!
To Adventist777,
my response: Brother, Jesus magnified the commandments. If I will follow your thought that Matthew 22:40 is obsolete then Paul was wrong when he said: ” And any other commandment are summed up in this sentence, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF, love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:9-10) “for all the law is fulfilled in one word even on this; THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF (Gal.5:14) Taken the context, this wonderful passage seems perfectly in step with Jesus, See tony? the fault of your logic! you even contradicted the confirmation of Paul.
————————
You got it all wrong again brother. First of all, let us read what kind of people to whom Paul was speaking with in Galatia:
Galatians 3:1 “O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Galatians 3:2 “This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:3 “Are ye so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
These are foolish members in Galatia who are going backwards! That is why Paul was mentioning those things to them which you clearly have not understood! You have to read the whole context to understand why Paul said that to the Galatians! Let us now again read Galatians 5:14-15:
Galatians 5:14 “For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thy self.
Galatians 5:15 “But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.”
Did you see the reason why he quoted that? The Galatians are already biting and devouring each other! What is commanded and expected for a Christian is to love his brother as how Christ loved the brethren.
John 13:34 “A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another”
1 John 3:16 “Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.”
That is the kind of love that Christ had given us as example. That is the new commandment for Christians to follow. How Christ loved us, that is how we must love our brethren. Not as we love our selves but by how Christ loved us.
But how can these Galatians “give their lives for the brethren” if even by “loving his brother as thyself” they cannot even do?
Do you get the point? The reason why Paul quoted that because these foolish members in Galatia needs to be educated! They already started in Spirit but walking backwards!
We must accept that there is a very big difference between “loving thy neighbor as thyself” and “loving one another as how Christ loved us”! That is why Christ showed that example and that should be the basis of Christians!
But that is not what the Galatians were doing. They cannot even love one another as “thyself”. That is where Paul’s statement came from.
It is very clear that we are not contradicting what Paul have said for it is actually in accordance to what Christ also said :
Christ SAID: Matthew 22:39-40 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets
PAUL SAID: Galatians 5:14 “For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thy self.
They are basically speaking of the same thing! But never forget, Christ gave Christians a “NEW COMMANDMENT”.
John 13:34 “A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another”
1 John 3:15 “Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”
If only the Galatians have observed them, biting and devouring wouldn’t have even occurred between them
God bless.
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: my response: Let me follow your argument, you mean that the Law of God given to Moses have flaws and thus it must be nullified? If that is true then God is a liar because his prophet said:
“For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light (Proverb 6:23) “The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; the statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart, the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
(Psalm 19:7-8)
—————————
First of all, you are the one who started comparing God’s laws to man made laws in the Philippines of which I said, a foolish thing to do.
Also, I said that it is the man made laws in the Philippines that have flaws! Check again before giving any stupid conclusions like making it appear that God is a liar.
Now, let as ask the Bible, did the 1st covenant have fault in them? Let us allow the Bible to answer and not us!
Hebrews 8:7 “For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.”
Hebrews 8:8 “For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:”
The reason why God made a new covenant is because he found fault in the old one.
Now, Biblically speaking, let us ask God regarding the law he had given to Moses.
Adventist777,
Brother I’m still waiting for your reply!!!
Check the one I’ve posted from MCGI member Locale of UK.
It would be nice to defend your faith and the doctrines of your congregation.
to Mr. Adventist triple 7 and SDA,
I observed you were not tackled again about Sabbath, because your church name was came from it right? it is very important because the name is vital in God’s organization did you know that? I hope so…
Proverbs 22:1 A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold.
If God house should also call by His name not every name..
Jeremiah 7:14 Therefore will I do unto this house, which is called by my name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I have done to Shiloh.
1Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
It is very clear not Seventh day adventist even in the name your church is faulty so how you can depend your church in the name you will not pass anymore if the basis is the bible
but if human aspects you can depend your name, going back to sabbath.
So thats why every saturday you were resting or waiting for the savior to come was it right? do you rest on saturday without doing anything? Just curious asking…
But you know there is one sabbath meant for the Christian and not the sabbath in your no. 20 fundamental doctrines..
Hebrew 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Hebrew 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Hebrew 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
So it is very clear that Jesus Christ is the real Sabbath of Christians not the sabbath that Moises commanded to Israelites in Horeb.
Read whole the epistles of Saint Paul to Hebrew Chapter 1-13 and you will understand, because the Hebrew were the group that familiarized with Moises teaching so Saint Paul want them to changed what they learned before.
To all SDAC thanks, please harden not your hearts yah, because time is short and we hope you are all enlighten or if not it’s you choice, just always stick to this website of bro. eli be patience and open minded! and all of you will learn many topics, and free to discuss, To God be the Glory!
Adventist777, what is the full name of your church? Just want to know coz, GOD is bringing HIS people to HIS house/church that is written in the bible. Is your church been mentioned in the bible even once?
and there is no question when you say that we have to love our enemy coz it is written, take note; we have to LOVE OUR ENEMY. but not the enemy of GOD. what we have to hate is the enemy of GOD.
Well here’s for you, when you say that the author of the letter to the Hebrews started an erroneous presupposition.
One of the writer of the 4 gospel has written what the Lord Jesus Christ has said;
LUKE 10:16 says “He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.”
and the apostle Paul is one of those being called to be an apostle;
1 CORINTHIANS 1:1 “Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,” and is an authority to write the words of GOD,
and you are telling us that he started an erroneous presupposition, aren’t you despising apostle Paul, thus making you the enemy of GOD? with that would you like to be despised? if not, then be with Paul, and do you know where apostle Paul is? ask Bro. Eli Soriano and you’ll know.
I tell you, the apostle Paul and all the other apostles, didn’t go to your church neither they know your church.
To Brother EYES AND tony
Brother eyes wrote:Brother, I thought that we are already in the state of climax of love but why you still talking about the law.
Tony wrote: Brother, I regret to say this but it is not ironic. It’s just that you do not have understanding of the scriptures, that is why you err. Let us prove that
Gal. 3:24-25 “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”
————————————————————————
my response: Tony, look at the way your bro. EYES handled his arguments, he is wise like a serpent but harmless like a dove, (bro. eyes i am not saying that you are a serpent, but you are like like a serpent in one specific way you are wise, in the same way you are not a dove, you are only like a dove in one specific way you are harmless ) Tony, i know you can create a good arguments but kindly imitate the way of bro. EYES. (you know what i mean). You hurt my heart!!!
Brother eyes, Love is the fullfillment of all, Creation is of Love. and love is universal. And we know that the fulfillment of love comes from the law, I beleive in that too, but what i dont believe is making the Eternal word of God as obsolete. It cannot be obsolete nor changed because that word comes from the eternal mouth of God. It must remain as it is, but in the administration of Jeus there are some that is no longer enforced. DO NOT USED THE WORD CHANGED NOR OBSOLETE.
In addition, we are now on the fruits of the Law, which is LOVE. According to st. Paul the Law is the schoolmaster in order for us to attain that state of Love. Then why did he mention that this same law is a cursed for us? HOw can it be?
How can a schoolmaster become a cursed for us? It cannot be!
So to nuliffy our schoolmaster is completely wrong. Do you get what I mean? or do you not?
For example: Minister soriano, is your schoolmaster in understanding the teaching of Jesus our lord, then following the statement above. Minister soriano became a cursed for you all. How can it be? A (school master) Good and (cursed) Bad at one? How can it be? The cursed (minister soriano) became the schoolmaster? There must be a fault in logic here that even (let me borrow the word of william) attentive mongoloid can see the error in reasoning here.
Brother eyes, remember the love of the mother that brought you here in this world, a mother that feed you forgetting herself just to feed you how can she be a cursed for you? are you going to changed her? or making her obsolote? Do you understand the significance of this assertion?
Thank you!
To all members of Church of God international:
Why are you so adamant as to call the leader of Seventh Day Adventist a false leader because she is a woman?
Do you understand that following strictly the saying of Jesus proves that no one even males can be a leader?
He put it consisely:
“Neither be called leaders, for your leader is one, the Christ. But the greater of you will be your servant.” ( Matthew 23:10)
See, there are no legitimate leaders of a congregation of the Lord neither male (Minister Soriano) or female.
We only have one Leader in attaining Salvation ……Jesus christ our lord! who said emphatiticallyl that his real brother, mother, sister are those who follow the words of God.
Thank you!
To tony:
You wrote: Galatians 5:14 “For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thy self.
Galatians 5:15 “But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.”
Did you see the reason why he quoted that? The Galatians are already biting and devouring each other! What is commanded and expected for a Christian is to love his brother as how Christ loved the brethren.
m response: Did you mean the same thing with Romans 13:8-10? that they are also biting and devour one another? In galatian 5:14 you have a point there to consider.
See, in a way you are good brother! so kindly do not use the word fools! Do not provoke me! There is no need for that! you can create a good argument, even without it – those unnecessary words! Do you follow? Be imitators of Eyes!
But you missed the very important thing in Romans 13:8-10, St. Paul omitted the First commandment (which Jesus did not (matthew 22:34-40) when he condensed it -the law). It must not be omitted, It is the Oil brother, without the oil you cannot have a lamp. Tony, in all his letters, He never so much as mentions the Great Commandments – THE COMMAND TO LOVE GOD. not once! Yes not once!
But take note tony, i do not imply here that he utterly ignores man’s love for God. my emphasis here is to man’s love for God not to God’s love for man. Paul never focuses on it as a key component of his epistles. (while Jesus did), he never mentioned the First and Great Commandment. What he mention is only a brief allusions.
How can he light his lamp without the Oil?
Thank you!
To adventist777
Tiny brother, there is no sabbath, because God has never rested. Jesus said: ” My Father is working still”.
There is no Church from without that can save you. The churches from without are only illusion. The real church is the true church from within, it is the real one. its foundation is as strong as petros or a rock. It will stand no matter what.
But I thank you for giving them appetizer! Let us move on to the final and important stage which is LOVE, the essence of all.
It has been said: The best bible is the one that you live!
So let the love begin.
Listen to your big brother! Be gone! (though i am not saying that you are satan!) You did your job very well!
To Adventist777,
YOU QUOTED: Tony wrote: Brother, I regret to say this but it is not ironic. It’s just that you do not have understanding of the scriptures, that is why you err.
YOU SAID: Tony, i know you can create a good arguments but kindly imitate the way of bro. EYES. (you know what i mean). You hurt my heart!!!
—————
Pardon me for being frank in the things that I say. We cannot evade the fact that since we are in a discussion, we need to speak the Truth and sometimes that really hurts. Try to understand and with God’s help you will definitely see that our intent is to save you from your false beliefs that were injected into you by your impastors.
Also, in this kind of discussion, please be informed that I am not in a situation to please you. I am in a situation whereby I need to speak the word of God and as you see, even the word “Fool” is being used by God. So must I.
If only I had seen that you truly consider what is written, you may expect that I will speak accordingly. But the way I see that you are rejecting what is written, don’t expect that you will receive words that you only want to hear.
Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
You may also remember your false accusation and you will understand why those words were also used to fit you.
Nevertheless, thank you for your frankness and be informed that is also being appreciated.
——————–
YOU SAID: In addition, we are now on the fruits of the Law, which is LOVE. According to st. Paul the Law is the schoolmaster in order for us to attain that state of Love. Then why did he mention that this same law is a cursed for us? HOw can it be?
Once again, you got it all wrong. Where can you find in the Bible that the fruits of the law is love?
This is what is written:
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
That is what is written. Not the same as you claim to say. In fact, what you say is even contrary. Let us read in another verse.
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
What you are still observing is an old testament that according to Paul, kills! The glory of that was to be done away as well! What we have received is a new testament whereby we can live according to the spirit and it is rather even more glorious!
Once again, we encourage you to listen to the only sensible preacher in our time, so that all those poisons that were injected in your system be removed by the true and untarnished Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
God bless.
To tony
You quoted before: Gal. 3:24-25 “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
I quoted: ” the law is a cursed” (Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law)
And now, you quoted another one: 2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away.
How can it be? How can a cursed (law) and ministration of death (law) becomes a schoolmaster? (law)
How can a ministration of death and also something that is a cursed can bring you to christ? It is impossible!
Tony there is a fault in logic here.
Make up your mind!
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: m response: Did you mean the same thing with Romans 13:8-10? that they are also biting and devour one another? In galatian 5:14 you have a point there to consider.
Kindly read the whole book to the Romans in its entirety and you’ll get the point why Paul gave those statements. I don’t think your Pastors have taught you well in considering the entire context of what you read.
Rom 14:1 “Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.”
Rom 14:10 “But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.”
Rom 14:13 “Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.”
Paul’s admonition certainly has something to do with brotherly love that is why he is even quoting those things to the Romans. I suggest that you thoroughly and carefully read your Bible.
—————————–
YOU SAID: But you missed the very important thing in Romans 13:8-10, St. Paul omitted the First commandment (which Jesus did not (matthew 22:34-40) when he condensed it -the law). It must not be omitted, It is the Oil brother, without the oil you cannot have a lamp. Tony, in all his letters, He never so much as mentions the Great Commandments – THE COMMAND TO LOVE GOD. not once! Yes not once!
I regret to say this but nothing is surely missed out for the apostle Paul and Christ speak of the same things. Let us place the verses that you provided.
Rom 13:8 “Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law”
Rom 13:9 “For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”
Rom 13:10 “Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.”
What Paul speaks of here is the same as what Christ really said about the fulfilling of the law. If you would observe clearly, he is explaining the importance of love and that is why he once again quoted what Christ said in Mat. 22: 39-40.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Isn’t it they are speaking of the same thing? Their statements are truly in agreement to each other. Paul is quoting what Christ had said because he is reminding the Romans to love one another because even by that you have already fulfilled the Law of Moses!
But the question is, is fulfilling the law of Moses already enough for Christians to enter the kingdom of God? Is that already the complete thing for Christians to observe? Maybe it’s you who’s missing out something and not us! Let us prove that according to what Christ said:
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Is loving thy neighbor as thyself already enough for Christians to observe? You are gravely misinterpreting what Paul is just quoting brother!
You have to know that loving your neighbor might be enough for Israel who are observing the law of Moses but not for Christians! Israel doesn’t even have the instruction to love their enemies!
In fact, they were instructed to hate their enemies! Christ clearly changed that!
Loving your neighbor as thyself is clearly not enough for Christians! Let us prove that:
Mat 5:20 “For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.”
Christians must exceed the righteousness being observed by those teachers of the Law of Moses like the Pharisees!
If they were commanded to love thy neighbot as thyself, Christians must love even their enemies! That is the kind of love that Christ had given as example as well for Christians to follow!
It is very clear that Christians cannot be possibly justified by the law of Moses.
Acts 13:39 And by him, all that believe are jsutified from all things, from which ye could not be jsutified by the law of Moses.
Better consider and repent brother. You are simply misinterpreting Paul’s quotes.
I suggest that you better listen to the wisdom that the only sensible preacher in our time is teaching us and may God have mercy on your soul.
God bless.
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: I quoted: ” the law is a cursed” (Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law)
The reason why you are confused because what you say is not what is written.
Galatians 3:13: Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree:
It is not the law which is cursed but Christ! Christ was made a curse because he took our sins with him when he was crucified on a tree. The curse that is supposed to be for us was with him because he redeemed us from our sins. He took the curse of the Law and was made a curse for us.
It is Christ who was made a curse and not the law.
YOU SAID: And now, you quoted another one: 2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away.
How can it be? How can a cursed (law) and ministration of death (law) becomes a schoolmaster? (law)
———
I hope you now see that there is clearly no contradiction to what we say because we even say that the Law written and engraven in stones was glorious but was to be done away. That also explains why it was only intended to bring us to Christ for Christ is the end of the law (Gal.3:24-25).
It is you who say that the law is cursed and not us. That is why you are confused. There is a big difference between the “Law is cursed” and “the curse of the Law”.
Try to think at least and may God will to make you understand where all your confusions come from. Be not contentious but rather be, a Believer.
You have already met the messenger of God sent for us. Be careful for you might not know whom you are going against with.
Repent and make up your mind.
TO: Adventist777
Brother, here is a closing remarks on this certain post just for you.
I understand and appreciated that you know that we are all walking in a pathways into a place called love.
Because if we don’t know it then we are like an Israelite walking 40 years in a wilderness without reaching in the promise land unless their heart are purified by the law.
Do you remember when we are still young?
“Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest:” (John:21:18)
FREEDOM
How do you feel now that we are in the right age or old enough to understand the words of GOD?
“but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.” (John:21:18)
RESTRICTION
“If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. ” (John 8:36)
“And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32)
and I know you know the truth…. which lies in your heart and
and govern in your thought.
EYES
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: Why are you so adamant as to call the leader of Seventh Day Adventist a false leader because she is a woman? Do you understand that following strictly the saying of Jesus proves that no one even males can be a leader?
He put it consisely:
“Neither be called leaders, for your leader is one, the Christ. But the greater of you will be your servant.” ( Matthew 23:10)
See, there are no legitimate leaders of a congregation of the Lord neither male (Minister Soriano) or female.
————–
So foolish of you to say that! Did Christ ever say that no one, even “males” can be a leader in the verse? Is that what is written? It is just your own stupid conclusion! Be careful in adding words to what is written for it proves you to be a liar.
Proverbs 30:6 “Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”
Why would Christ even say such nonsense knowing and understanding the fact that he himself is male. He is even called as the SON of God, even SON of man. Has your mind been that clouded already that you are now even unable to distinguish male from female? Look at what has Ellen done to you!
You are really so, so misled because your leader is truly a woman. Let us listen to what the Bible says about women leaders.
Isaiah 3:12 “As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.
——————
YOU SAID: We only have one Leader in attaining Salvation ……Jesus christ our lord! who said emphatiticallyl that his real brother, mother, sister are those who follow the words of God.
——————-
So, so wrong again! You truly do not understand anything about salvation. You totally misinterpreted what Christ has said. You do not truly understand what he meant to say.
Don’t you know that even the Father can save? Don’t you know that Christ’s power to save is just inherent from the Father? Is the Father a leader or not?
1 Tim. 4:10 “For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.”
Is Jesus Christ the only leader in attaining Salvation? Have you ever read the word “only” or is it just your own addition again? If you intended to add that, then you truly are, a liar.
Repent brother, accept your stupidity and foolishness. Humble yourself before God and accept the teachings of the MALE preacher whom he has sent to lead us in this dispensation …
May God have mercy on your soul.
To Brothers tony & eyes:
Brothers, Thank you for all the efforts and time for this wonderful discussions. Let us always remember that this sharing is only for the purpose of knowing the truth. No personal string attach of whatsoever. Again I would like to extend my appreciation for both of you for your unceasing efforts to be with me until this time. But allow me to comment on your post.
Tony, You quoted & wrote: Galatians 3:13: Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree: There is a big difference between the “Law is cursed” and “the curse of the Law”
my response: Brother, there is no difference between the law is a cursed and the curse of the law. In both sense there is a curse in that law. Pertaning to Christ becoming the cursed for us is somewhat misleading and very deceptive for the actual quotation from the servant moses is never like that, let me quote:
“If a man has committed a crime punishable by death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his body shall not remain upon the tree, but you shall bury him the same day, for a hanged man is accursed by God; you shall not defile your land which the Lord your God gives you for an inheritance” (Deuteronomy 21:22-23).
tony, taken from the above narration, the words do not say that every one who hangs on a tree is accursed, only those who have committed a corresponding crime. It applies only to one guilty of a capital crime, not to everyone who hangs on a tree as you rendered the thought. Jesus was not guilty, and this mandate need not apply to him in any case, unless God chose to place a curse on him even though he was not guilty.
Anyway let us go back again to Galatian 3:24-25 which reads:
“Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”
Tony, from that law comes the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20, that law worketh wrath (Romans 4:15), that law is sin and death ( Romans 8:2). See, Tony? the above passages validated that the Law is indeed a cursed for us. Taken from the above quotation How can this law be your schoolmaster leading to Christ? How can it be? Again, there must be an error in logic here. Again make up your mind tony.
Tony kindly explain and clarify the above quotations in the book of Romans.
Thank you!
TO:adventist777
I AM VERY CURIOUS AS I HAVE OBSERVED THE INTERACTIONS ABOUT THIS TOPIC.
AND IF TRULY,ADVENTIST777…..I AM AWAITING YOUR REPLY TO MCGImember locale of UK…..HE OR SHE WAS IN YOUR SDA CHURCH BEFORE….WHY DONT YOU BELIE HER/HIS STATEMENTS?
WHY CANT YOU REFUTE HER/HIS STATEMENTS ABOUT YOUR CHURCH?
HOW CAN YOU PROVE YOU ARE IN THE TRUTH…WHEN YOU EVADE HER/HIS QUESTIONS?????????
LET THIS ROOM HEAR AND SEE WHAT YOU CAN SAY TO NULLIFY THOSE STATEMENTS….IF THEY’RE UNTRUE…..BELIE THEM!!!!
BUT YOUR SILENCE…..IS JUST AN ACCEPTANCE OF YOUR CHURCH IN TOTAL LIES AND DARKNESS….INDEED, BLINDED BY FANATICAL ATTITUDE TOWARDS A FALSE CHURCH CREATED BY THE god OF THIS WORLD…..PROVE THAT YOU ARE NOT BLIND!!!!!
SHOW US YOUR BASIS THAT YOUR CHURCH IS THE ONE WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE…FOUNDED BY GOD THRU CHRIST….
WHERE’S YOUR BIBLICAL BASIS?????????????????
HOW CAN YOU CLAIM YOU ARE IN TRUE CHURCH????…..WHEN YOUR CHURCH IS FOUNDED BY ELLEN G WHITE?WHY DID YOU BUILD YOUR OWN CHURCH????????????????????WHEN GOD HAST FOUNDED IT ALREADY…………..ISNT THAT REJECTING CHRIST?????????????
PROVE YOUR STAND……
WHAT BRO.ELI PREACHES IS ABOUT THAT TRUE CHURCH WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE.WE,THE MEMBERS HAVE JUST JOINED THAT ONE CHURCH WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE.
WHY DO U OPT FOR THE FALSE CHURCH??????????DO U THINK THERE’S SALVATION IN ANY CHURCH INVENTED BY SATAN THRU MEN????????????????????????????????IF YOU KNEW THAT YOUR CHURCH IS UNBIBLICAL AND PROVEN TO BE FOUNDED BY MEN…..OR A WOMAN,I SHOULD SAY……
ISNT THAT FANATISM??????????????????WHEN U OWE AND PREFER ALLEGIANCE TO MEN AND NOT TO CHRIST OF THE BIBLE?
REMEMBER THERE’S JUST ONE CHURCH…ONE BODY….
EPH 4:4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling
THANKS!I WILL AWAIT YOUR REPLY TO MCGI….
ADVENTIST777,
You said, “so Paul is not the author of book of Hebrew.”
1. I disagree. Let us ask Peter.
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2. Whom did Paul wrote unto? The same people whom Peter wrote unto also. Who are they?
2 Peter is the second epistle whom the apostle Peter wrote.
2 Peter 3:1 ¶This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
3. Therefore, he was writing unto the same people whom he wrote his first epistle. Who were they?
1 Peter 1:1 ¶Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
…strangers scattered
4. Who were these?
Acts 8:1 ¶And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
…the church which was at Jerusalem. So who else wrote unto them? PAUL.
5. Look at the similarities.
Hebrews 13:24 Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.
Philippians 4:21 Salute every saint in Christ Jesus. The brethren which are with me greet you.
Paul wrote both.
ADVENTIST777,
I really think that you are obliged to answer post #47 MCGI member Locale of UK.
We are waiting!
To Gerj and MGCI member of locale of UK.
Gerj wrote: AND IF TRULY,ADVENTIST777…..I AM AWAITING YOUR REPLY TO MCGImember locale of UK…..HE OR SHE WAS IN YOUR SDA CHURCH BEFORE….WHY DONT YOU BELIE HER/HIS STATEMENTS?
my response: Gerj Truly, truly I say to you,- thank you for following our discussions! You are blessed! Brother bear in mind that- what is important is the message and not the external church, the former is the source of salvation while the latter is only a decoration you can profit a little from it. Similarly regarding MCGI member locale of UK. There are two kinds of “Adventist”, the adventist in names and the adventist in heart and thought. The former is a church goers, and a follower of the strict dogmas of that church,.while the latter is the free one, the enlightened one, who is not truly part of that cage, the latter is the product of love in action, who lived by the true tenet of Adventisism as instructed by the Lord Jesus Christ when he magnifed, stiffened & condensed the law making it a matter of heart and thought.
In essence, the real adventist doesnt belong to the external Church of the Seventh day adventist (though he is a member of it in papers and can visit that man-made church anytime anywhere) But the internal church from within. The former is only an illusion while the latter is the one that is real.The temple of God lies within you, It is where God dwelleth!
Thank you gerj!
To tony:
tony wrote: So foolish of you to say that! Did Christ ever say that no one, even “males” can be a leader in the verse? Is that what is written? It is just your own stupid conclusion! Be careful in adding words to what is written for it proves you to be a liar.
my response: foolish again? how many ***IRBM have you fired since the start of this thread? and yet missing/failing the target! Is it hard to imitate bro. eyes?
***Inter-religious ballistic missile.
Brother, Strictly speaking Yes! the statement is very clear. Jesus as in Jesus is our only leader. He is the only rabbi and WE ARE ALL BRETHEN. Of course as usual it is paul who started, ministers pastors etc etc (Ephesian 4:11, II timothy 1:11, I timothy 2:7, & I cor. 12:28). Take note tony, WE ARE ALL BRETHEN JESUS IS OUR ONLY LEADER AND RABII.
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tony wrote: So, so wrong again! You truly do not understand anything about salvation. You totally misinterpreted what Christ has said. You do not truly understand what he meant to say. Don’t you know that even the Father can save? Don’t you know that Christ’s power to save is just inherent from the Father? Is the Father a leader or not? Is Jesus Christ the only leader in attaining Salvation? Have you ever read the word “only” or is it just your own addition again? If you intended to add that, then you truly are, a liar.
my response: Brother, are you on your right mind? I am not contesting between God and the Son, but between the Son and the leaders of the so called churches. Yes, I know Our Father in heaven can save, He is God! and I know also by heart that Jesus has no doctrine.
“My doctrine is not mine, but HIs that sent me” ( John 7:16)
But Jesus is the only leader, our only leader not minister Soriano nor the female leader of Seventh Day adventist church or anyone.
Jesus Christ -the son is our only leader and rabbi. Do you understand?
note: The begotten son is not the israelite body but the “Word” in that body, the “Word” is immaterial it has no gender simply because even God the father has no gender. that’s the reason why He is not man.
Thank you!
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: my response: Brother, there is no difference between the law is a cursed and the curse of the law. In both sense there is a curse in that law.
I regret to say this but any person who is in his proper sense would simply understand the difference between “the curse of the law” and “the law is cursed”.
Just a little common sense would help brother. Try to see the big difference between these two phrases: “the curse of God” and “God is cursed”! In case you still need further explanation for that, just let
me know.
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YOU SAID: Pertaning to Christ becoming the cursed for us is somewhat misleading and very deceptive for the actual quotation from the servant moses is never like that, let me quote:
“If a man has committed a crime punishable by death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his body shall not remain upon the tree, but you shall bury him the same day, for a hanged man is accursed by God; you shall not defile your land which the Lord your God gives you for an inheritance” (Deuteronomy 21:22-23).
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The verse that you provided even confirmed the truthfulness of what we speak of!
Who is accursed in the verse? Isn’t it the one who is being hanged? Similarly, it was Christ who was hanged on a tree and was accursed! How can that be misleading? Are you an authority over Paul who said that Christ is made a curse for us?
YOU SAID: tony, taken from the above narration, the words do not say that every one who hangs on a tree is accursed, only those who have committed a corresponding crime. It applies only to one guilty of a capital crime, not to everyone who hangs on a tree as you rendered the thought. Jesus was not guilty, and this mandate need not apply to him in any case, unless God chose to place a curse on him even though he was not guilty.
Better read your Bible brother and stop listening to the false doctrines of Ellen G. White that misled you. Read 2 Cor. 5:21:
2 Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Christ did not sin but he was made a sin for us. Christ took and borne our iniquities that is why he was accursed. He became the recipient of the curse of the law and took the punishment that is supposedly for us according to the Gospel. He sacrificed his own life to save us because he loves us.
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem
him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
I hope it is now clear to you that it is truly Christ who was accursed and not the law.
Galatians 3:13: Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree:
God bless.
ADVENTIST777,
You should answer directly the questions in post #47 of MCGI member Locale of UK and not evade them with rhetorical devices.
ANSWER!
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: Brother, Strictly speaking Yes! the statement is very clear. Jesus as in Jesus is our only leader.
Strictly speaking? You do not even understand what you say! Strictly speaking, Jesus is our brother! And God is our Father! That is why WE ARE ALL BRETHREN!
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
I regret to say this but you really do not know our leader, our Lord Jesus Christ, who is our loving brother.
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YOU SAID: But Jesus is the only leader, our only leader not minister Soriano nor the female leader of Seventh Day adventist church or anyone.
Where can you read that Jesus is our ONLY leader? Show any verse that says Christ is the ONLY leader. I will wait for the verse.
Furthermore, isn’t it foolish to claim that Ellen is your female leader when-in-fact you also say she is not a leader at all? Truly, you are sheeps without a true pastor, that is why you are lost.
You claim that I keep on sending IRBMs. If you consider the word of God IRBMs, then so be it.
Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
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YOU SAID: He is the only rabbi and WE ARE ALL BRETHEN. Of course as usual it is paul who started, ministers pastors etc etc (Ephesian 4:11, II timothy 1:11, I timothy 2:7, & I cor. 12:28).
Is it Paul who started that in Ephesians 4:11? Don’t you know that it is Christ who started appointing some as apostles, prophets, ministers, pastors, etc.?
Luk 11:49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
The wisdom of God is the one who sends these prophets and apostles. Who is this wisdom of God?
1Co 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
It is our Lord Jesus Christ who sends the apostles and the prophets. Are these appointed apostles and prophets not leaders as well? If they were appointed to lead the brethren, are they not legitimate leaders as you claim to say? Do you mean Christ sends illegitimates?
It is Ellen G. White who is illegitimate because Christ never sent a female to lead his people.
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YOU SAID: my response: Brother, are you on your right mind? I am not contesting between God and the Son, but between the Son and the leaders of the so called churches.
I am never out of my mind. Do you think God is apart from Christ when he leads his people? Will you separate God and Christ when it comes to leadership? Is Christ ALONE?
Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
Joh 16:32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.
They are always together and Christ is not the ONLY leader as you claim to say. He is not alone in whatever he does. The Father is actually in him and he is in the Father.
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
You are the one who is truly out of your mind.
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YOU SAID: note: The begotten son is not the israelite body but the “Word” in that body, the “Word” is immaterial it has no gender simply because even God the father has no gender. that’s the reason why He is not man.
Where can you read in the Bible that God has no gender? Can you show any verse? Don’t you know that from everlasting his name is already called as Father, which is in the male gender?
Isa 63:16 Doubtless thou art our FATHER, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our FATHER, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.
Biblically, if he is not male in gender, it should have been written, “thou art our PARENT, our redeemer” ..
Also, Christ, the only begotten SON, is also male in gender! As you said yourself, he was not begotten by the Father only when he took the form of an Israelite human body!
If Christ, when begotten in eternity has no gender, it should have been written as, THE ONLY BEGOTTEN CHILD ..
Tell me frankly, are you planning to create your own version of the Bible?
You are truly misled, that is because you are listening to a female leader, which is truly illegitimate and was not sent by Christ.
Yield, deny your own righteousness and repent brother.
And may God have mercy on your soul.
To Adventist 777
First of all , before I will answer the so called “Christ to Joel”, here’s the verses to ;
PRELUDE TO NEW COVENANT :
ISAIAH 43 : 18-19 Remember YE NOT the former things , neither consider the things of old .
Behold, I will do a new NEW THING ; Now it shall spring forth ; Shall ye not know it ? I will even make a way in the wilderness , and river in the desert .
ISAIAH 55 : 3 Incline your ear , and come unto me : HEAR , and your soul shall live ; And I will make an EVERLASTING COVENANT with you , even the sure mercies of David .
ISAIAH 31:22 How long wilt thou go about , O thou backsliding daughter ? For the Lord hath CREATED A NEW THING in the earth ….
JEREMIAH 31 : 31-34Behold, THE DAYS COME , saith the Lord , that I will MAKE a NEW COVENANT with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL , and with THE HOUSE OF JUDAH :
NOT ACCORDING to the COVENANT that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt ; which covenant THEY BRAKE, although I was an husband unto them , saith the Lord.
But this shall be the COVENANT that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL ; AFTER THOSE DAYS, saith the Lord , I will put my law in their inward parts , and write it in their hearts ; And I will be their God , and they shall be my people .
And they shall no more teach every man his neighbour , and every man his brother, and saying , KNOW THE LORD; For they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord : For I will forgive their iniquity , and I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SIN NO MORE .
AMOS 9: 11 IN THAT DAY will I RAISE UP the Tabernacle of David that is fallen , and close up the breaches thereof ; And I will RAISE UP HIS RUINS , and I WILL BUILD IT as in the days of old .
MALACHI 3 : 1 Behold, I will send my messenger , and he shall prepare THE WAY BEFORE ME: and the LORD , whom ye seek shall suddenly come to his temple , even THE MESSENGER OF THE NEW COVENANT , whom ye delight in : Behold , HE SHALL COME , saith the Lord of Hosts.
HEBREWS 8: 7 For if the FIRST COVENANT had been FAULTLESS , then should no place have been sought for THE SECOND.
HEBREWS 7 : 12 For the PRIESTHOOD BEING CHANGED , there is made of necessity A CHANGE OF THE LAW.
GALATIANS 3 : 23 – 26 But before FAITH CAME , we were kept under the Law , SHUT UP UNTO FAITH which should afterward BE REVEALED .
Wherefore THE LAW was our SCHOOLMASTER to bring us unto CHRIST, that we might be justified by FAITH .
But after that FAITH IS COME , we are NO LONGER under a SCHOOLMASTER .
GALATIANS 3 : 23-26 For ye are THE CHILDREN OF GOD : BY FAITH in CHRIST JESUS .
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Christ to Adventist777 – (LUKE 24: 44 ) And HE said unto THEM (that’s includes you) , these are the words which I spake unto you , while I was yet with you , THAT ALL THINGS MUST BE FULFILLED , which were written in the LAW OF MOSES , and THE PROPHETS, and in the PSALMS, CONCERNING ME .
LUKE 24 : 45-46 Then opened he their understanding , that they might understand the scriptures .
And HE said unto them , Thus it is written , and thus it behoved Christ to suffer , and to rise from the dead the third day :
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So the Law which HE must fulfilled , are Laws intended ONLY , and EXCLUSIVELY for him, it is not for you , nor for me , and not for anybody else for that matter , that which were written in the Book of Moses , in the Prophets , Psalms.
And to think , that after all the verses that my brothers in Christ and friends and MOST OF ALL , the verses and words that Bro. Eli gave you, AND STILL YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTAND , and kept on hardening your heart. There is a one thing that I can say to you, THAT YOU ARE A WASTE OF OUR TIME , AND WE HAVE DONE OUR JOB. We are now blameless in the presence of our Lord Jesus.
AMEN
JET & TONY
To Jet:
Jet wrote: You should answer directly the questions in post #47 of MCGI member Locale of UK and not evade them with rhetorical devices.ANSWER!
my response: Brother, re-read again post #72. The thought of my answer is crystal clear. I am a “born-again” Adventist. (John 3:3) An adventist of heart and thought who is a follower of the law that were magnified, stiffened, condensed, simplified and universalized by our lord Jesus christ and his new commandments.
By the way Jet let me ask you, how does one become a child of God, Is it by Adoption? No jet! It is by birth (John 3:3) not adoption. Our God does not adopt children, He begets them. Do not forget that Jet, the seed is the word of God” (Luke 8:11), the seed is sporos of God that produces children of God when it impregnated the heart.
The Parable of the Sower explain it beautifully, Jet Kindly read and meditate on the essence of the parable
Are you still an adopted child jet? Come back to Jesus and claim his promises, it is not too late!
Hope someday there will be a “born-again” members of Church of God international.
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For tony:
YOu wrote: I regret to say this but any person who is in his proper sense would simply understand the difference between “the curse of the law” and “the law is cursed”.
my response: Brother, Yes it is grammatically incorrect, but that is beside my point, as usual you missed the target again.
I said: ” there is no difference between the law is a cursed and the curse of the law. In both sense there is a curse in that law”. Why?
The law is a cursed Why? from that law comes the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20, that law worketh wrath (Romans 4:15), that law is sin and death ( Romans 8:2).
What are the curse of the law? 1. knowledge of sin 2. sin and death 3. worketh wrath 4. ministration of death. See? In both sense there is a curse in that law.
So taken from the above context how can that Law which is a cursed and a ministration of death be your tutor (Schoolmaster) that can bring/lead you to christ? It is impossible! There is a fault in logic here.
do you follow?
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you wrote: Who is accursed in the verse? Isn’t it the one who is being hanged? Similarly, it was Christ who was hanged on a tree and was accursed! How can that be misleading? Are you an authority over Paul who said that Christ is made a curse for us?
my response: Yes, according to Paul Christ became a curse for us. but kindly read Galatian 3:10 : “FOR AS MANY ARE THE WORKS OF THE LAW ARE UNDER THE CURSE, FOR IT IS WRITTEN CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT CONTINUE NOT IN ALL THING WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW TO DO THEM.
Tony there are two things to consider according to paul
1. Law is under a curse or the law brings a curse (Galatian 3:10)
2. Christ became a cursed for us. ( Galatian 3:13).
do you understand?
you wrote: How can that be misleading?
my response: Do you know why tony? It is because in the narration of moses tell us that not every one who hangs on a tree is accursed, only those who have committed a corresponding crime. It applies only to one guilty of a capital crime, not to everyone who hangs on a tree as you rendered the thought.
you inquired: Are you an authority over Paul who said that Christ is made a curse for us?
my response: tony, it’s not between me and Paul. It is not about my authority. I just quoted the source of Paul’s message which can be found in the writings of moses. And we found out that the thought of Moses is quite different from the thought of Paul. I would rather believe in Moses thought because it is logical and reasonable.
you wrote: Better read your Bible brother and stop listening to the false doctrines of Ellen G. White that misled you.
my response: Brother tony, our issue is not about Ellen G. White, it’s about Moses and Paul wherein paul misused the writings of Moses to his own accord.
You wrote: Christ took and borne our iniquities that is why he was accursed.
my response: You mean God chose to place a curse on him even though he was not guilty?
You quoted: Galatians 3:13: Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree
my response: According to Moses, not all hangeth on a tree is accursed but only those who have committed a corresponding crime. And Jesus never commited a crime of whatsoever so he is not entitled to be a curse for us. Do you understand tony?
Note: tony bear in mind it’s not about me and Paul, it is between Moses & Paul.
Thank you!
To Jet:
you wrote: Hebrews 13:24 Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.
Philippians 4:21 Salute every saint in Christ Jesus. The brethren which are with me greet you. Paul wrote both.
my response: The similiary is not conclusive, though the message of hebrew is indeed similar to that of Paul’s message. It’s because Apollos was influenced by Paul, the former agreed with his doctrine and the latter think highly of former making him at level of Peter. It is through Aquila and Priscilla (Acts 18:18-28) that apollos learned the pauline doctrine
Paul most of the time uses personal pronoun in writings , in Romans, I and II corinthians alone he uses almost more than a hundred thousands of ” I, ME, MY and MINE” in making himself, on the other hand the author of hebrew refers to himself only 7X in the entire book. And besides the author of hebrew is superior in greek language than Paul, he’s very eloquent. Paul was not good in speech.
The reason why Apollos did not put his name on the book is simple , his name will not be acceptable to the hebrew. His name was not named after the God of Israel or any of the Patriarch. He was named after the pagan God Apollo the son of Zeus.
Thank you!
To tony:
You wrote: Strictly speaking? You do not even understand what you say! Strictly speaking, Jesus is our brother! And God is our Father! That is why WE ARE ALL BRETHREN!
In another occasion
You wrote: I am never out of my mind. Do you think God is apart from Christ when he leads his people? Will you separate God and Christ when it comes to leadership? Is Christ ALONE?
my response: Before anything else, I want you to know that in both paragraphs above, you are re-directing our topic to something different, which is not my main point of concern. Brother, I am familiar with the Will of the Father! Yes Jesus is indeed our brother. But our topic is about leadership here on earth. Between Jesus as the only leader and those so called leaders of the churches. We are strictly talking about leadership here on earth.
Do you understand?
Thank you!
To tony & Joel:
tony wrote: It is our Lord Jesus Christ who sends the apostles and the prophets. Are these appointed apostles and prophets not leaders as well? If they were appointed to lead the brethren, are they not legitimate leaders as you claim to say? Do you mean Christ sends illegitimates?
my response: Tony, following strictly the words of Jesus “WE ARE ALL BRETHEN! He alone is the leader, rabbi & master. Strictly speaking He is the only ONe that can lead us to the FAther, Strictly speaking He is the only One who can teach us to understand the will of the Father, Strictly speaking He is the only master. NOT ELLEN Nor ELI, Is it clear? Do you understand?
tony wrote: Where can you read in the Bible that God has no gender? Can you show any verse? Don’t you know that from everlasting his name is already called as Father, which is in the male gender? If Christ, when begotten in eternity has no gender, it should have been written as, THE ONLY BEGOTTEN CHILD ..
my response: Tony bear in mind that Gender is strictly a distinction of the flesh. God has no body He is spirit, therefore to say that He is male or female is absurd. “Father” and “Son” is figurative, the “God of Heaven” is without gender and so is the “Son of God”. Prior to creation there is no distinction. Prior to creation there was no flesh, no flesh, spirit has no gender. Do you understand? In addition there is no neutral gender in hebrew language and masculine terms was used for convenience’s sake.
And to strengthen this understanding let us hear our lord Jesus christ. Let me quote:
‘FOR WHOEVER DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN THE HEAVENS, HE HIMSELF IS MY BROTHER AND MY SISTER AND MY MOTHER” ( Matthew 12:46-50)
See tony? Our lord Jesus christ does not distinguish gender from gender, nor function from gender. neither function or gender exist in our lord’s mind.
Let us hear him again:
“And do not call anyone your father on the earth, for one is your father in the heavens” ( Matthew 23:9).
Here tony the “Father” is a figurative distinction to our carnal father.
IN another occasion he said:
“But be not ye called rabbi for one is your teacher (master) and all of you are brothers (brethen)” (Matthew 23:8)
” And answering the king will say to them: Truly I say to you in as much as you did to one of the least of these brothers (brethen), you did it to me ” ( Matthew 25:40)
See again tony? there are no sisters! thus, female disciples like liloth, geh etc that have received the Word and believed do not preserve gender specification. Do you follow? The same is true for tony, eyes, Jet, Joel, Leo etc. All both male and female enter into that spiritual relations does not retain gender. THEY ARE NOW GENDER-LESS, there is no distinction.
So, Tony make Jesus as your only leader and listen to him, coz from him we learned that there is no gender in heaven, there is no mothers, no daughters, no sisters and no fathers. There is one “Father” but no fathers. Do you understand tony?
By making Jesus your only leader and by listening to him, you will understand that the one father and the many sons and brothers designate spiritual relations only. and DO NOT INDICATE GENDER……….for there is no gender in heaven, we are all spirits.
Is it clear tony?
Thank you!
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Joel wrote: So the Law which HE must fulfilled , are Laws intended ONLY , and EXCLUSIVELY for him, it is not for you , nor for me , and not for anybody else for that matter , that which were written in the Book of Moses , in the Prophets , Psalms.And to think , that after all the verses that my brothers in Christ and friends and MOST OF ALL , the verses and words that Bro. Eli gave you, AND STILL YOU HAVE NOT UNDERSTAND , and kept on hardening your heart. There is a one thing that I can say to you, THAT YOU ARE A WASTE OF OUR TIME , AND WE HAVE DONE OUR JOB. We are now blameless in the presence of our Lord Jesus.
AMEN
my response: Joel, I already explained many things about your concerns & queries in lenght in my previous post. Kindly read it one by one. Thank you! ALWAYS REMEMBER JOEL, Those laws came from the Eternal Words of God, and thus those laws are also ETERNAL, Do not use any word such as CHANGED or OBSOLETE. Do not concern about my soul dear brother, I know where I am going- the sheep hear his voice. But please DO NOT SAY THAT YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME BROTHER!. because in sharing the truth we do not exist anymore.
Why are you so concern about your time? Brother for your information time is non-existent in absolute reality.
Thank you!
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: I said: ” there is no difference between the law is a cursed and the curse of the law. In both sense there is a curse in that law”. Why? The law is a cursed Why? from that law comes the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20, that law worketh wrath (Romans 4:15), that law is sin and death ( Romans 8:2).
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I regret to say this but you truly are very, very misled, brother. Is the law cursed because it provides us knowledge of sin? Let us place the verse you have provided:
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
The verse did not mention that the law is cursed. It is just your own conclusion. What is written is: “by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Kindly answer these 2 questions and please use a little of your common sense.
1. Who gave the law for us to have knowledge of sin?
2. Who exactly then has the entire knowledge of sin?
Real knowledge of sin comes from God. He gave the law so that we may have knowledge of sin. It was a way for God to let us know that what we do is sin. Does that make the law cursed? What is the Biblical conclusion about the law?
Romans 7:12 “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.”
The law is not cursed. Rather, the law is good and holy. What is written in Galatians 3:13 is very clear: “curse of the law” and not “the law is cursed”.
Provide a verse that says “the law is cursed”.
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YOU SAID: The law is a cursed. Why? …. that law is sin and death ( Romans 8:2).
Let us read the verse that you have provided.
Romans 8:2: “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”
What is written is “the law of sin and death” and not “the law is sin and death”
Now, let us ask the Bible: Is the law sin as what a foolish adventist claim to say?
Romans 7:7 “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.”
I did not miss any target. It is your understanding which is amiss.
Do you follow?
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my response: Do you know why tony? It is because in the narration of moses tell us that not every one who hangs on a tree is accursed, only those who have committed a corresponding crime. It applies only to one guilty of a capital crime, not to everyone who hangs on a tree as you rendered the thought.
If Christ took our sins, if he wanted to be responsible for all of them instead of us, if God imputed him sin, if God has laid all our sins on him, does he now have sin or not?
2 Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
What you do not understand is, even if a person did not himself do the crime, even if he did not himself do the transgression, it is still possible for him to bear the sins of others! Let us prove that:
Lev 5:1 And if a soul sin, and hear the voice of swearing, and is a witness, whether he hath seen or known of it ; if he do not utter it, then he shall bear his iniquity.
See, even if a person is just a witness, but did not utter to report what he had seen, he himself will bear the iniquity of the one who sinned, even if he did not himself do it!
Christ did not sin, but he took all our iniquities. God laid upon him all our iniquities.
Galatians 3:13 “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:”
That is why he was made a curse. He took with him our sins to redeem us from the curse of the law. That is why he is guilty because all our iniquities are with him even though he did not commit sin.
That is why he is our redeemer from the “curse of the law”.
Do you follow?
To Adventist777,
Try to check and compare what you have said than that of which is written:
ADVENTIST777 : Pertaning to Christ becoming the cursed for us is somewhat misleading and very deceptive for the actual quotation from the servant moses is never like that, let me quote:
MOSES WROTE: … … for a hanged man is accursed by God; Deut. 21:23
PAUL WROTE : Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Galatians 3:13
Both Moses and Paul speaks of the same thing. The one being hanged is Cursed. Was Christ hanged? Then listen to both of them.
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ADVENTIST777 : In addition, we are now on the fruits of the Law, which is LOVE.
THE BIBLE SAYS: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23
The fruit of the law is not love but rather the fruit of the spirit is love. What you say is not even on the cover of the Bible.
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ADVENTIST777 : So, The new covenant is not a new and different law and to percieve it instinctively Israel will be given a covenant a new heart that will know all of God’s law.
PAUL WROTE: Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
CHRIST SAID: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. John 13:34
There is a new covenant and a new commandment being spoken of by Christ and Paul. You are actually against Christ and not just Paul.
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ADVENTIST777 : Jesus was not guilty, and this mandate need not apply to him in any case, unless God chose to place a curse on him even though he was not guilty.
ISAIAH WROTE: ….. and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:6
LUKE WROTE: The place of the Scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: …… Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same Scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. Acts 8:32,35
PAUL WROTE: For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Corinthians 5:21
Isaiah, Luke, Philip and Paul are speaking of the same thing. (They are like autobots and you resemble a decepticon.)
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ADVENTIST777 : I would rather believe in Moses thought because it is logical and reasonable.
PETER WROTE: And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:15-16
The Gospel that the apostles preached are in authority over Moses’ teachings. Even Peter acknowledges the writings of Paul. I’d rather believe them both because they were sent by our Lord Jesus Christ.
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ADVENTIST777 : Law is under a curse or the law brings a curse
THE BIBLE SAYS: “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.” Galatians 3:10
The works of the law are under the curse and not the law is under the curse. You are changing what is written
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ADVENTIST777 : Brother tony, it’s ironic! you presented a wonderful exaltation of love above all, of loving one another not hating your enemy as a new commandment and yet you are calling me fools?
GOD SAID: But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided. Luke 12:20
CHRIST SAID: Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift. Mat. 23:19
No wonder why Christ abhor hypocrites.
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ADVENTIST777 : if the law is our schoolmaster and so it is the tutor to us, and yet at the same time the law is also a curse for us. How can it be?
THE BIBLE SAYS : Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Galatians 3:13
Christ was made a curse for us and not the law is a curse for us.
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ADVENTIST777 : Do you understand that following strictly the saying of Jesus proves that no one even males can be a leader?
THE BIBLE SAYS: Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead; Galatians 1:1
Paul was assigned by Christ to be an apostle and leader to the Gentiles. Paul is male.
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ADVENTIST777 : We only have one Leader in attaining Salvation ……Jesus christ our lord!
THE BIBLE SAYS: For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe. 1 Tim. 4:10
The Father is the foremost leader in attaining Salvation and not Christ only.
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ADVENTIST777 : See, there are no legitimate leaders of a congregation of the Lord neither male (Minister Soriano) or female.
THE BIBLE SAYS : And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Church leaders such as the apostles and prophets set by God are all illegitimate according to Adventist777. He also considers his female leader as illegitimate. So foolish!
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ADVENTIST777 : So, tony is the Law worketh wrath, Is it the law of sin and death? And can we say that from the law comes the knowledge of sin? God forbid! If not, then why do you like to nullify it?
ADVENTIST777 : The law is a cursed Why? from that law comes the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20, that law worketh wrath (Romans 4:15), that law is sin and death ( Romans 8:2).
You are even contradicting your own statements.
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Adventist777,
Since when the SDA had a “BORN AGAIN” chapter? If you are really a born again of the SDA then, we should not believe all you say and you should stop using the ADVENTIST name for you are not part of them. Isn’t it if you are on the right church you stay there for the rest of your life after your baptism? Why is it you are representing the SDA’s and yet, you separated from the one under the SDA union and call yourself a SDA born again? Does this mean you were baptised in the wrong church which has wrong doctrines before you became an SDA born again as you said?
Since you avoided answering question no.47, which im not surprise coz you are a born again SDA then, can you give us a verse in the whole Bible that mentions, the name of your congregation?
I do believe that, if a church name doesnt follow what Christ and the Apostles taught then, how can the doctrines inside that congregation be right if the name alone doesnt follow the BIbles standard name for a true church?
Is your church recognised by the SDA Union in the US at all? Or your pastor separated from the SDA to build its own group and still follow the doctrines taught by the SDA?
“Only a stupid dog eats, what it has thrown up!”
God bless you and may he remove the veil that is upon your heart!!!
To tony:
note: Brother, thank you for being with me until this time!
Tony wrote: The law is not cursed. Rather, the law is good and holy. What is written in Galatians 3:13 is very clear: “curse of the law” and not “the law is cursed”.
my response: Tony, for at least 2 or 3x I have told you that If the law is HOLY, SPIRITUAL & GOOD, then how come this same law worketh wrath , a law of sin and death and comes the knowledge of sin? Clearly, there is something called the curse of the law (Galatian 3:10-13) Is there really a curse of the Law? Well, before listening to the ideas of Paul let us hear first our God who made that Law if the law is itself bring a curse.
“know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the Lord he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath; there is none else thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, THAT IT MAY GO WELL WITH THEE, and with THY CHILDREN AFTER THEE, and THAT THOU MAYEST PROLONG THY DAYS UPON THE EARTH. which the lord thy God giveth thee, FOREVER” (Deut. 4:39-40)
Tony, God saith: That it may Go WELL with thee and with Thy children after thee? See tony?
Tony, God saith: which the lord thy GOD giveth the, FOREVER, (FOREVER, FOREVER.)
Tony God is never a liar!
Can you see any curse of the law in the above narration? Nothing! It only exist in the imagination of Paul and to his disciples like you. Do you know why? simply because he himself cannot keep the law.
On the contrary God saith:
“For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light (Proverb 6:23)
“The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; the statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart, the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
(Psalm 19:7-8)
So how can it be a law of sin and death, how can it worketh wrath? if it is indeed a lamp and light, if it is perfet converting the soul, PURE, ENLIGHTENING THE EYES. Make up your mind tony!
YOu asked me the ff. questions:
1. Who gave the law for us to have knowledge of sin?
2. Who exactly then has the entire knowledge of sin?
and we both answered correctly, – the author of the law is God. Therefore God is the authority and not Paul? Do you understand tony?
so, I say again in Galatian he said that the Law is the Schoolmaster that can bring you to Christ, meaning the law is your tutor. How can it be? How can this law that bring a curse bring you to christ? It is impossible. One seems Good (Schoolmster- tutor) while the other seems bad (Cursed). There is a fault in logic here very obvious even in the eyes of the attentive mongoloids. (william)
Or, if the law give us knowledge and understanding of the Christ, then how can the law be denied & nullified? tony do you know that to deny the law is to deny Jesus? Is it not? If Jesus the christ comes to us through the law then how can the law be corrupt? If the law is corrupt then it follows logically that the Messiah is also corrupt. (which is not true!) God forbid! Right tony! Dont just read, Think tony! use your common sense!
Tony wrote: I did not miss any target. It is your understanding which is amiss.
my response: Truly, truly i say to you – tony you did really miss the target ! And it is the understading of Paul which is amiss.
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Repost (kindly post brothers!): To tony:
You wrote: Strictly speaking? You do not even understand what you say! Strictly speaking, Jesus is our brother! And God is our Father! That is why WE ARE ALL BRETHREN!
In another occasion
You wrote: I am never out of my mind. Do you think God is apart from Christ when he leads his people? Will you separate God and Christ when it comes to leadership? Is Christ ALONE?
my response: Before anything else, I want you to know that in both paragraphs above, you are re-directing our topic to something different, which is not my main point of concern. Brother, I am familiar with the Will of the Father! Yes Jesus is indeed our brother. But our topic is about leadership here on earth. Between Jesus as the only leader and those so called leaders of the churches. We are strictly talking about leadership here on earth.
See tony? You did miss the target again! Yes! our target which is comparing Jesus & the ministers, pastors etc. of today’s churches.
Thank you!
To tony (part II):
Tony wrote: No wonder why Christ abhor hypocrites.
my response: Did you imply that I am a fool because I am hypocrite? Tell me my hypocrisy tony! It is you who talked about Love, Love your enemy and yet continously firing your IRBM’s towards me- your spiritual opponent. Brother do you think that I am inferior as compare to you? Even if I am unskilled in writings, but not in knowledge. Do not think that I am a fool, if otherwise yes as as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little, Are you a believer? So Am I, Are you of Christ So am I !
There is no contradiction in my statements tony, the contradiction lies in your mind for failing to understand, digest & extract the essence & significance of my post.
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tony quoted and wrote: Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.Real knowledge of sin comes from God. He gave the law so that we may have knowledge of sin. It was a way for God to let us know that what we do is sin. Does that make the law cursed? What is the Biblical conclusion about the law?
my response: Wrong tony, you are absolutely mistaken! the law comes from God through Moses TO PROTECT MAN FROM SIN., it was a contract b/w God and man that came as a gift for those who wished to become God’s children. And it was UPHELD by our lord Jesus Christ. Did he not? Tony in the Bible the knowledge of sin came from ADAM and EVE when they ate the fruit of tree of knowledge of good and evil (Read Genesis 3:4-5)
tony quoted: “Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin” (Romans 3:20)
Take note tony: By the deeds of the LAW there shall NO FLESH be justified!
How come tony? IN Romans chapter 2 he said: “All who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God but the doers of the law who will be justified ( Romans 2:12-13)
See? The DOERS of the LAW who will be justified
Seems contradictory? Is it not? Yes it is absolute contradiction. If we are to be judged by the things we have done and we have done them properly, we should be judged accordingly, with reward, but he also says it is impossible b’coz God’s law lead us to sin.
And by the way, from his above narration (romans 2:12-13 & romans 2:6), He is now speaking of Faith with acts. I thought He preaches faith without works?
Stay with me tony!
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tony wrote & quoted: If Christ took our sins, if he wanted to be responsible for all of them instead of us, if God imputed him sin, if God has laid all our sins on him, does he now have sin or not? 2 Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.What you do not understand is, even if a person did not himself do the crime, even if he did not himself do the transgression, it is still possible for him to bear the sins of others! Let us prove that:Lev 5:1 And if a soul sin, and hear the voice of swearing, and is a witness, whether he hath seen or known of it ; if he do not utter it, then he shall bear his iniquity.See, even if a person is just a witness, but did not utter to report what he had seen, he himself will bear the iniquity of the one who sinned, even if he did not himself do it!
My response: tony the narration of moses is crystal clear that not every one who hangs on a tree is accursed, only those who have committed a corresponding crime. It applies only to one guilty of a capital crime, not to everyone who hangs on a tree. Re-read Deut. again! and his views was in accordance to King Solomon & Prophet Ezekiel
“Whoso diggeth a pit shall fall therein; And he that rolleth a stone, It shall return upon him (Proverbs 26:27)
“The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father,neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.” (Ezekiel 18:20).
And even Paul confirmed it:
” For whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap” (Gal. 6:7)
“For everyman shall bear his OWN burden” ( Gal. 6:5)
See tony? Moses was right, the person commited the crime is the one liable! In essence WE, the sinners are liable for our own transgresssions. Is it clear tony?
(Stay with me tony, let us talk up to the end to arrive in the truth of the matter! And we should not be afraid of the truth coz that truth will set us free!)
To be continued…………….
For tony and his so called “Contradictions” (Part I)
note: I remember one time, the Church of Manalo accused minister Soriano of “Many Contradictions”. I saw the list and studied it one by one, and I found out that they (ministers of INC) err in understanding. They misunderstood minister Soriano. All their accusations were out of context and thus the problem lies on their head failing to digest the message of Minister Soriano.
And now, ironically, One of the member of Church of God international is accusing me of Contradictions. Let us see whether he really has the heart/mind of an INC or not!
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1. Tony wrote:
ADVENTIST777 : Pertaning to Christ becoming the cursed for us is somewhat misleading and very deceptive for the actual quotation from the servant moses is never like that, let me quote:
MOSES WROTE: … … for a hanged man is accursed by God; Deut. 21:23
PAUL WROTE : Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Galatians 3:13
Both Moses and Paul speaks of the same thing. The one being hanged is Cursed. Was Christ hanged? Then listen to both of them.
my response: Let us post it again. Moses saith:
“If a man has committed a crime punishable by death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his body shall not remain upon the tree, but you shall bury him the same day, for a hanged man is accursed by God; you shall not defile your land which the Lord your God gives you for an inheritance” (Deuteronomy 21:22-23).
TONY TAKE NOTE HE SAID , “IT IS WRITTEN” AND SO I QUOTED THE SOURCE OF HIS MESSAGE TO FIND OUT THAT IT IS INDEED WRITTEN WITH THE SAME THOUGHT & INTENTIONS, IF HE DID NOT MENTION THE WORD ” IT IS WRITTEN “THEN THERE IS NO NEED FOR US TO QUOTE FROM THE SOURCE. YOu see tony, He uses the word “It is written to be persuasive that his view is not a matter of his thought. But ironically, He misquoted Moses. He misrepresented Moses. Why? because taken from the above narration, the words do not say that every one who hangs on a tree is accursed, only those who have committed a corresponding crime. It applies only to one guilty of a capital crime, not to everyone who hangs on a tree as you rendered the thought. Jesus was not guilty, and this mandate need not apply to him in any case, unless God chose to place a curse on him even though he was not guilty.
Tony is it not clear from the above verses that only those who are guilty and committed a crime that should be hanged on a tree? So it is cyrstal clear from the above narration that not all hanged man is accursed by God. Do you follow?
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2. Tony wrote:
ADVENTIST777 : In addition, we are now on the fruits of the Law, which is LOVE.
THE BIBLE SAYS: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23
The fruit of the law is not love but rather the fruit of the spirit is love. What you say is not even on the cover of the Bible.
my response: Yes, the Fruit of the spirit is LOVE, No doubt!
The fruits of the law is Love? Why? What did God say about the law?
“For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light (Proverb 6:23)
“The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; the statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart, the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
(Psalm 19:7-8)
So taken from the ETERNAL MOUTH OF GOD, If the law is Perfect, a lamp, and light…. is pure……. enlightening…….. converting the soul, by following that Law will it produce HATE or sin and death? (on the contrary God saith that the law PROLONG THY DAYS UPON THE EARTH not death) or LOVE & UNDERSTANDING?
Tony do not just read , think! use your common sense! It is God speaking tony (not me!) through King Solomon and King David.
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3. Tony wrote:
ADVENTIST777 : So, The new covenant is not a new and different law and to percieve it instinctively Israel will be given a covenant a new heart that will know all of God’s law.
PAUL WROTE: Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
CHRIST SAID: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. John 13:34
There is a new covenant and a new commandment being spoken of by Christ and Paul. You are actually against Christ and not just Paul.
my response: The above passages refers to the prophecy of Jeremiah of the the new covenant which is given to ISRAEL and JUDAH that was the same covenant wherein God will give them a covenant of a new heart that will know all of God’s law. and it was explained already. Regarding the New covenant, It was clarified already in my previous post I saith: There are two that will not pass away? the law of moses (magnified and stiffined) and the law of Christ., the two will endure up to the end. ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT THE OLD COVENANT CAME FROM THE ETERNAL WORD OF GOD, IT WILL NOT VANISH AWAY! (for God’s sake!) How can it vanish away? It is the ETERNAL WORD FROM THE ETERNAL MOUTH Of GOD. Do you understand the significance of words coming from the ETERNAL MOUTH OF GOD? but it is true there are some that is no longer enforce in the new administration of Jesus Christ. But NEVER use the word CHANGED nor OBSOLETE or VANISH , HOw dare you labelling the ETERNAL WORD coming FROM the ETERNAL MOUTH Of GOD CHANGED? nor VANISH away? Read the revelation of God through KING DAVID and KING SALOMON. Is Apollos or Paul wise than King Solomon? Did God speak to Apollos or Paul? NO! But God spoke to King David.
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4. Tony wrote:
ADVENTIST777 : Jesus was not guilty, and this mandate need not apply to him in any case, unless God chose to place a curse on him even though he was not guilty.
ISAIAH WROTE: ….. and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:6
LUKE WROTE: The place of the Scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: …… Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same Scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. Acts 8:32,35
PAUL WROTE: For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Corinthians 5:21
Isaiah, Luke, Philip and Paul are speaking of the same thing. (They are like autobots and you resemble a decepticon.).
my response: First of all , consider as what William taught you, that Jesus was not a lamb, (the thought of Isaiah’ prophecy) He is not even an atoning Sacrifice for God. He taught you also that God is not a vampire, mosquito or a tic that is sated for Blood. Tony do you mean that the righteous God who is of LOVE, mercy and JUST put a curse on his Unguilty Son? Is it fair? Do you see any justice there? Do you see any mercy there? Where is now the MERCY PRINCIPLES OF GOD TAUGHT BY JESUS? such as: …….Be merciful for your father is merciful? If you forgive your brother’s tresspasses , God will forgive you also! YOu mean this teachings of Christ has no value anymore and we must believe or have faith in him only for the forgiveness of our sins because he redeemed us from sins? Is God’s forgiveness less before the death of his son? and becomes greater when his son died in horrible death? How did it happen? DO NOT JUST READ TONY, THINK!
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5. Tony wrote:
ADVENTIST777 : I would rather believe in Moses thought because it is logical and reasonable.
PETER WROTE: And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:15-16
The Gospel that the apostles preached are in authority over Moses’ teachings. Even Peter acknowledges the writings of Paul. I’d rather believe them both because they were sent by our Lord Jesus Christ.
my response: Consider the ff:
Tony william taught you that II Peter 3:15-16 is an insertion of the Paulinist. and to make his point more appealing and conclusive allow me to elaborate it more.
We learned that when Paul was accused of Lying he swore by heaven by calling God and the Holy spirit to witness for him in order to be persuasive.
We were informed also that Paul advised his disciples to be like him: “Be imitators of me” (I Cor. 11:1) he said.
As expected, the Paulinist followed him, and so He binds Peter to Paul to be persuasive, imitating the way of his ringleader.
In short both are users. Or in our own dialect – ” Mga Manggagamit”
Listen tony, Peter will never endorse Paul. Why? Because he upraids peter in public, He called Peter double faced, He accused Peter of not walking uprightly in the truth of the gospel. He also boldy accused Peter of not working abundantly in doing his job as an apostle.
ONe good example is this: Peter is pro-circumcision while paul is anti-circumcision, they have an opposing views.
end of part I
To be continued…………………..
ADVENTIST777 #79,
1. Is it only my #5 point in post #70 that you do not conform? How about points 1-4?
Read it again. REMEMBER, we are talking about the AUTHOR here, not the WRITER. Do you agree?
2. You said, “It’s because Apollos was influenced by Paul, the former agreed with his doctrine and the latter think highly of former making him at level of Peter.”
Your idea of Apollos as the author was that of Martin Luther. Didn’t he found Protestantism? Hmm!
But anyways, just because Apollos was influenced by Paul, makes him the author of the book of hebrews already? NO! Have you ever imagined how many were influenced by Paul himself?
And think of this, if Peter thought at level with Paul himself.
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Even the apostle Peter declared that there are some things hard to be understood in his epistles.
So, I do not really wonder why you do not understand it yourself. It was revealed to God’s saints.
Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
…Whereelse?
2 Corinthians 1:1 ¶Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
…but the CHURCH OF GOD.
…not the seventh day adventist church, which is just a man-made invention.
3. Anyways, have you ever read a verse where Paul said, I SALUTE YOU, etc…? I bet none yet. Because there isn’t any. Instead, what he admonished the brethrens was to SALUTE ONE ANOTHER.
Romans 16:16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.
Now examine this:
Hebrews 13:24 Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.
4. You said, “The reason why Apollos did not put his name on the book is simple , his name will not be acceptable to the hebrew.”
You know, proponents of the word, ‘simple’ here in the philippines have concluded that Cain is the eldest and Abel is the youngest. That is very dangerous.
Anways, granting for a while without accepting, if he was the author, how did you come to know his intention when he did not write it? Did you happen to see his heart? Hmm! Your conclusion is doubtful. And it is not biblical.
But moreover, the apostle Paul was not like that.
1 Corinthians 9:19 ¶For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
ADVENTIST777 78,
You said, “my response: Brother, re-read again post #72. The thought of my answer is crystal clear. I am a “born-again” Adventist. (John 3:3)
It is only now that I have known of born-again adventists. HAHAH! 😉 Man-made invention indeed. I have heard of born-again christians before, but not this. HEHEH! 🙂
Anyways, you know, on 09 Jul 2007 at 12:26 am47 MCGI member Locale of UK clearly asked the questions point-by-point.
I really think that you should ANSWER them DIRECTLY and POINT-POINT also. Your answers in #72 were vague and seemingly trying to evade the real issues at hand.
I will paste what the questions were for you:
Mr. Adventist777,
I am a former SDA member before and all of my family are a devoted SDA in Vancouver and California area. I would like to ask you this questions:
1) What day did the Apostle Paul congregate and preached during his time as a preacher of the Church of God?
2) Did Christ and the Apostles taught, practised, and implement the Tithes to the first generation of Christians?
3) Why is it when you commemorate the SANTA SENA(Holy supper) you do it in the morning?
4) Did Christ and the Apostles forbid the concumation of pork meat and other animals which God forbid Israel to consume?
5) If you believe that the SDA is the true church, where exactly can you find in the Bible that, Christ and his Apostles teach or even mentioned SDA or Adventist whenever the write there respective letters/Epistles?
I have some documents ready to send you regarding the books written by Ellen G. White which proves that, she is a hoaxer and teaching of HER that contradicts the Bible. Post your email address and ill send it there.
ANSWER THEM ALL, ADVENTIST777! The people deserves to know the truth!
for tony: (last part)
6. Tony wrote:
ADVENTIST777 : Law is under a curse or the law brings a curse
THE BIBLE SAYS: “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.” Galatians 3:10
The works of the law are under the curse and not the law is under the curse. You are changing what is written
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my response: Ok allow me to follow your point, so tony if only the works of the law is under the curse, and the law per se is not a curse then it follows logically that the law is indeed a blessing because it is holy, spiritual, and good! Therefore, it will not bring wrath, more so it is not the law of sin and death or ministration of condemnation nor the knowledge of sin will not come from it. Right tony? So what is the point of making it obsolete? There is a fault in logic here tony!
Is the law a curse or not tony? If it is not then Let us keep the law!
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7. Tony wrote:
ADVENTIST777 : if the law is our schoolmaster and so it is the tutor to us, and yet at the same time the law is also a curse for us. How can it be?
THE BIBLE SAYS : Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Galatians 3:13
Christ was made a curse for us and not the law is a curse for us.
my response: OK for a moment let us forget about the word “Curse”. Let me re-phrase my question using other terms. Tony, If the law is our Schoolmaster and it is the tutor to us, and yet at the same time the law worketh wrath, the law of sin and death, that the law is ministration of condemnation. How can it be? it is impossible, How is it possible that the corrupted Law bring you to christ? right tony?
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8. Tony wrote:
ADVENTIST777 : Do you understand that following strictly the saying of Jesus proves that no one even males can be a leader?
THE BIBLE SAYS: Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead; Galatians 1:1
Paul was assigned by Christ to be an apostle and leader to the Gentiles. Paul is male.
my response: Can you cite a verse that Paul indeed assigned by Christ to be an apostle.? Can you show me his witnesses?NOt him testifying for himself. Remember Jesus taught us how to testify.
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9. Tony wrote:
ADVENTIST777 : We only have one Leader in attaining Salvation ……Jesus christ our lord!
THE BIBLE SAYS: For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe. 1 Tim. 4:10
The Father is the foremost leader in attaining Salvation and not Christ only.
my response: Agreed! but between Christ and the so called leaders of today’s church? Who is the ONLY leader? Is it not Christ alone strictly speaking?
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10: Tony wrote:
ADVENTIST777 : See, there are no legitimate leaders of a congregation of the Lord neither male (Minister Soriano) or female.
THE BIBLE SAYS : And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Church leaders such as the apostles and prophets set by God are all illegitimate according to Adventist777. He also considers his female leader as illegitimate. So foolish!
my response: It will become foolishness, if you will put my writings out of its context. I said STRICTLY speaking & Jesus put it concisely that He is the ONLY LEADER, RABBI, MASTER and we are all brethen (brothers). Strictly speaking JEsus is the ONLY LEGITIMATE leader. why because he said it concisely: “WE ARE ALL BRETHEN”. Tony the significance and essence of his message is crystal clear. The prophets are only servants of God. The apostles are only followers of Christ. Jesus Christ our lord is the KING of KINGS, He is the ONLY LEGITIMATE LEADER strictly speaking. Is it hard to understand?
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11. Tony wrote:
ADVENTIST777 : So, tony is the Law worketh wrath, Is it the law of sin and death? And can we say that from the law comes the knowledge of sin? God forbid! If not, then why do you like to nullify it?
ADVENTIST777 : The law is a cursed Why? from that law comes the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20, that law worketh wrath (Romans 4:15), that law is sin and death ( Romans 8:2).
You are even contradicting your own statements.
my response: I see no contradiction in my statements above. Can you please tell me the contradiction? What contradiction are you talking about? The first paragraph is about INQUIRY, while the 2nd paragraph is about PROVING that the Law is indeed a curse.
End of your so called contradiction!
Question: Tony in your own opinion do you have the heart & mind of an INC fanatic?
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: my response: Tony, for at least 2 or 3x I have told you that If the law is HOLY, SPIRITUAL & GOOD, then how come this same law worketh wrath , a law of sin and death and comes the knowledge of sin?
1. (God curses and has wrath). Does that make Him unholy and evil? If the law worketh wrath to those who are disobedient, does that make the law unholy and evil? Wake up!
2. (It is a law of sin and death). Those who grievously commit sin against the law of Moses, were put to death. What then is your problem? Does that make the law bad and unholy?
3. (Comes the knowledge of sin). By means of the law, God wanted you to know what is sin!
Romans 7:7 “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.”
Does that make the law bad and unholy? Don’t you still get it? Wake up!
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YOU SAID: “know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the Lord he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath; there is none else thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, THAT IT MAY GO WELL WITH THEE, and with THY CHILDREN AFTER THEE, and THAT THOU MAYEST PROLONG THY DAYS UPON THE EARTH. which the lord thy God giveth thee, FOREVER” (Deut. 4:39-40)
Is that pronouncement for everybody? THY CHILDREN. To whom was God speaking through Moses here? To everybody? HE WAS TALKING TO ISRAEL AND NOT EVEN TO GENTILES LIKE YOU.
If you will continue reading until chapter 5, you will understand to whom Moses is speaking with in those verses. Let us read Deut. 5:1:
Deut 5:1-3: And Moses called ALL ISRAEL, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
You have to understand that the covenant which was given by God to Moses is intended for Israel and their children. It was not even given to the Fathers of Israel, but unto them which are alive on that day and to their children. It is an everlasting covenant for Israel but not for the Gentiles.
Do we have proof those commandments were intended for all Israel.
Malacchi 4:4: Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
The ten commandments are clearly intended for all Israel and not for everybody.
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YOU SAID: So how can it be a law of sin and death, how can it worketh wrath? if it is indeed a lamp and light, if it is perfet converting the soul, PURE, ENLIGHTENING THE EYES. Make up your mind tony!
Still the same question. Let us place the verse you provided.
“The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; the statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart, the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
One reason why the law worketh wrath against Israel is because they are hard headed.
Also, try telling that to those who do not believe God, those who are against the law of God and you will understand why the law worketh wrath.
A little use of your common sense would help you understand.
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my response: Truly, truly i say to you – tony you did really miss the target ! And it is the understading of Paul which is amiss.
Let us see who is truly amiss according to one of the authorities sent by our Lord Jesus Christ.
The Apostle Peter acknowledged Paul and his writings.
(2 Peter 3:15-16)
“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.”
In Paul’s writings are things which are hard to be understood according to the apostle Peter. Many of those who are UNSTABLE and UNLEARNED wrest them. Clearly, this is what you do, unto YOUR OWN DESTRUCTION.
May you take and consider that as a warning, brother.
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See tony? You did miss the target again! Yes! our target which is comparing Jesus & the ministers, pastors etc. of today’s churches.
You’re the one who’s clearly missing the target! So foolishly missing at that! We are speaking of the TRUE CHURCH in the scriptures! Of course, those who are outside the true church are false ones! Why would I include them in proving that in the TRUE CHURCH, Christ is not the only true leader and not the only savior! The Father is the foremost leader and savior! That is where our topic originated!
I pity you brother, you are totally out of your mind.
To GeraldUK & Jet
Gerald wrote: can you give us a verse in the whole Bible that mentions, the name of your congregation? Or your pastor separated from the SDA to build its own group.
my response: Brother Gerald I have no pastor, My only pastor is Jesus Christ, He is my only Rabbi and master. A “Born Again Adventist” in essence has no congregation because He belong to the “Ekklesia of Jesus”, which is the ekklesia of Heart and Thought, the Ekklesia from within which is as strong as Petros.
YOu can benefit little from congregation Gerald. But the most important thing is the “Word” of Jesus, from there we can find rest. Congregation is only a decoration, but the essence of Truth is not there. The truth can be known from within and not from without because the kingdom of God is from within.
Hope someday there will be ” Born again ADD” . Brother Eyes is a good candidate.
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Jet wrote: Read it again. REMEMBER, we are talking about the AUTHOR here, not the WRITER. Do you agree?
my response: OH yes Jet!, you have a very good point there to consider brother, Yes, I am only referring to the writer and not the Author who’s Paul himself. Anyway Thank you! GOT UR POINT! Apollos was only the writer and Paul was the author. Book of the Hebrews is of Paul’s thought. To err is human & ” I err” in that sense!
Jet wrote: It is only now that I have known of born-again adventists. HAHAH! Man-made invention indeed. I have heard of born-again christians before, but not this. HEHEH!
I really think that you should ANSWER them DIRECTLY and POINT-POINT also. Your answers in #72 were vague and seemingly trying to evade the real issues at hand.
my response: Oohh! ONly now? but Thanks be to God Praise the Lord! Halleluya! at least you know now! YOu are blessed jet! Hope someday you will be a “Born Again ADD” not by adoption but by birth. Brother, “Born again Adventist” is figurative do not be mislead again, I noticed you are fond of literalization. With regards to former SDA in UK, There is no need for me to answer her/his querries directly ONE by ONE. Why? Who is Ms. ELLEN in the light of truth? (Who is Bro. Eli in the light of truth?) and what is the significance of her dogmas in the kingdom of heaven? But take note, Do not degrade Ms. Ellen just because she is a woman. God look not to our gender,It is true divine revelation is not only for men, because there is no gender in the kingdom of heaven. Besides I already have my Pastor,- JESUS CHRIST my legitimate pastor strictly speaking . Jet take note I am not degrading Minister Soriano either, YES MINISTER SORIANO IS THE MOST SENSIBLE PAULINE PREACHER OF OUR TIME BUT MINISTER SORIANO IS NOTHING COMPARE TO MY LEGITIMATE LEADER.
Brother Jet do you know that in essense there is no difference between a “born again adventist” and a born again add” for now it is hard for to understand and accept but once you become a born again ADD, You will embrace me as your brother, believe me, it is true! You must be born from above not adopted. Those who teach doctrine of adoption are liars!
Jet quoted: But moreover, the apostle Paul was not like that.
1 Corinthians 9:19 ¶For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
my response: Jet here is another problem. Paul is like a Chameleon in I Corinthians 9:19-22. Right jet? Why? By dissecting his messages above will show that: to the gentiles he becomes a gentile, to the jews he is a jew, He is within the law but above it, he is outside the law yet he has no need of it. He is like a chameleon & a sense of hypocrisy can be seen on his message. do you follow jet?
Jet our lord Jesus christ did not accomplish this feat. NOR DID HE TRY.
OUr lord Jesus christ did not try to accomodate men but challenged them to know the legitimate essence of God’s law.
Our lord Jesus christ take note Jet did not bend to anyone (Jew, Gentile, or even to those slave), to their mannerism & attitudes, mode of thinking etc etc. and therefore Jesus earned their hatred and contempt. Is it clear jet?
Dear master Jesus, I thank you my beloved leader and master for this truth for revealing this to babes! Yes, dear lord for such was your gracious will.
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: my response: Wrong tony, you are absolutely mistaken! the law comes from God through Moses TO PROTECT MAN FROM SIN., it was a contract b/w God and man that came as a gift for those who wished to become God’s children. And it was UPHELD by our lord Jesus Christ. Did he not?
Hey, you are taking things out of context. I am particularly pointing out that the law is not cursed because I said and I quote”
Quote: He gave the law so that we may have knowledge of sin. It was A WAY for God to let us know that what we do is sin. Does that make the law cursed? …. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Unquote.
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Do not take things out of context.
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YOU SAID: Tony in the Bible the knowledge of sin came from ADAM and EVE when they ate the fruit of tree of knowledge of good and evil (Read Genesis 3:4-5)
So wrong again. Knowledge of sin DID NOT CAME from ADAM and EVE. This is what is written.
Gen. 3:22 “And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become AS ONE OF US, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:”
With so many wrong things that you keep on saying, we truly pity those people whom you are misleading.
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YOU SAID: How come tony? IN Romans chapter 2 he said: “All who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God but the doers of the law who will be justified (Romans 2:12-13) See? The DOERS of the LAW who will be justified. Seems contradictory? Is it not? Yes it is absolute contradiction.
That is the result of taking things out of context. Which DOERS does Paul mention here? The Israelites who received the law of Moses? Or the Gentiles who DID NOT HAVE the law of Moses? Read verse 14!
There is no contradiction. Don’t be lazy. Read your Bible!
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YOU SAID: And by the way, from his above narration (romans 2:12-13 & romans 2:6), He is now speaking of Faith with acts. I thought He preaches faith without works? Stay with me tony!
You do not understand what Paul is speaking, and that is pityful. By the way, I’d stay with Christ and not you, fool!
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YOU SAID: Tony is it not clear from the above verses that only those who are guilty and committed a crime that should be hanged on a tree? So it is cyrstal clear from the above narration that not all hanged man is accursed by God. Do you follow?
Inspite of the verses provided (Isaiah 53:6, 1 Cor. 5:21), you still persist that Christ did not carried our sins with him. You really do not have understanding of the scriptures, a sign of a wicked person (Daniel 12:9-10).
When Christ was on the cross, he is considered by God as sinful and unrighteous because he took all our iniquities with him. That is why he is called redeemer.
For if Christ was righteous at that moment, God will never forsake him.
Psalms 37:25: “I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.”
Psalms 37:28 “For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved forever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.”
Did God forsake Christ? Let us read what Christ said:
Mat. 27:46 “And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”
Both Moses and Paul’s statements are truly correct.
You’re the one who is very misled.
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YOU SAID: my response: The above passages refers to the prophecy of Jeremiah of the the new covenant which is given to ISRAEL and JUDAH that was the same covenant wherein God will give them a covenant of a new heart that will know all of God’s law.
New and still the same? Do you mean when Christ said that he will give a “new commandment”, it is still the same commandment? Hey, why can’t you also mention “NEW COVENANT”?
No further comment. My 10 year old nephew is laughing beside me. I bought him a new pair of shoes last week and he told me that it’s definitely not the same as the old one. I think he understood the point.
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YOU SAID: Listen tony, Peter will never endorse Paul. Why? Because he upraids peter in public,
You really do not know the scriptures. A true and wise brother in Christ, accepts upbraid or reproach. That is one reason why Peter even called Paul as BELOVED.
Proverbs 9:8 “Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will LOVE thee.”
2 Peter 3:15 “And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our BELOVED brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;”
Fools do not accept upbraid and they hate those who call them hypocrites!
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YOU SAID: my response: First of all , consider as what William taught you, that Jesus was not a lamb, (the thought of Isaiah’ prophecy)
Sorry I don’t listen to William, I listen to Christ and the apostles Paul and Peter.
Only fools would listen to William ….
Oh, and also hypocrites ….
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: my response: Tony, following strictly the words of Jesus “WE ARE ALL BRETHEN! He alone is the leader, rabbi & master. Strictly speaking He is the only ONe that can lead us to the FAther, Strictly speaking He is the only One who can teach us to understand the will of the Father, Strictly speaking He is the only master. NOT ELLEN Nor ELI, Is it clear? Do you understand?
Hey, before you continue with your foolishness, be informed that the Father will lead you first to Christ so that Christ may lead you to the Father! In short, it is the Father who truly leads us to him through Christ!
John 6:44 “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
It is you who do not understand.
On the other hand, even if Christ is our leader, it doesn’t follow that those whom Christ will appoint as leaders are illegitimates! Does Christ appoint illegitimate apostles and prophets? How dare anyone say that to Christ!
Now, since you consider Ellen as illegitimate, it only follows that none of the things that you say are also legitimate. So better stop spreading your lies.
Anyway, the legitimate founder of the True Church is Christ. Since you say that Ellen G. White is your founder, no wonder your church, your doctrines and yourself, are illegitimates.
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YOU SAID: ‘FOR WHOEVER DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN THE HEAVENS, HE HIMSELF IS MY BROTHER AND MY SISTER AND MY MOTHER” ( Matthew 12:46-50) See tony? Our lord Jesus christ does not distinguish gender from gender, nor function from gender. neither function or gender exist in our lord’s mind.
Are you that lost already? Aren’t those mentioned have genders? Gender is actually not the main point why Christ said that! It is about relationship with him. If you will follow the will of God, you will be considered by Christ as his brother, sister or if you are already a female parent, his mother!
If gender was the “main” subject, he would have just said: ‘FOR WHOEVER DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN THE HEAVENS, THERE WILL NO MORE BE “male or female”.
You never stop to amuse me with your false interpretations!
Hey, wake up!
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YOU SAID: See again tony? there are no sisters! thus, female disciples like liloth, geh etc that have received the Word and believed do not preserve gender specification.
”And answering the king will say to them: Truly I say to you in as much as you did to one of the least of these brothers (brethen), you did it to me ” ( Matthew 25:40)
I may even add other verses if you want.
Luke 20:34 “And Jesus said unto them, The sons of this world marry, and are given in marriage:”
Luke 20:35 “but they that are accounted worthy to attain to that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:”
Luke 20:36 “for neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.”
There will be no sisters (female). Yes, it is correct. But how about brothers (male)? What is your answer? You yourself quoted (Matthew 25:40)! Thank you!
Those who will inherit the kingdom of God will be called as “sons of God”, “sons of the resurrection”. They are male in gender.
Even angels which are spirits are even called as “sons of God”. They are male in gender.
Even God which is Spirit is called as “Father” which is male in gender.
Where in the Bible have you ever read that there will be no more gender in Heaven? Can you show me any verse please?
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: And now, ironically, One of the member of Church of God international is accusing me of Contradictions. Let us see whether he really has the heart/mind of an INC or not!
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How can you possibly know what’s inside my heart? Are you God?
Jer. 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”
Jer. I7:10 “I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.”
Only God can search the heart. He even knows our hearts better than we do know it. That is why we are not even allowed to trust in our own hearts.
Proverbs 28:26 “He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.”
Who then are you to accuse me of having a heart and mind of an INC?
You are truly a liar, bearing false witness against your neighbor. Bro. Eli was right about you.
I agree with you bro. Jet!!! Im the author of those question and still waiting for his answers. He is really avoiding answering it dunno why but, it looks to me that, his answers in this chat board will all be useless after he answers those questions. How can somebody who argues whats right and whats wrong practices wrong doctrines and religious practices right?
Separation from one religious denomination only means, you know that there is something wrong with the teaching thats why you separated from it! How can somebody separate because of the faults that they see or discovered use the same faults to build there own congregation? and whats worst is, they call themselves Born again SDA? That only proves that, Ellen G. White didn’t lay down teachings that can discipline her congregation for her teachings are not from God but it is her own imagination which feeds her mind.
Adventist777, How many times did Ellen G. White predicts the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ?
Do you know that, if a prophet(as you call her) prophesized and it didnt happen, that prophet should be cast away?
I want to go into things which concerns your faith for I do believe that, how can we start teaching if we ourselves doesnt even know who and what our teachers are made of? How can we transmit things to other people if we ourselves are not aware of the faults and weakness of what we are trying to transmit?
“Only a stupid dog eats, what it has thrown up!”
Isa 56:11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. KJV
There is a dog which was mentioned by prophet Isaiah and I have a feeling, your church leaders and pastors are one of them.
To God be the glory!!!
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: my response: Yes, the Fruit of the spirit is LOVE, No doubt! The fruits of the law is Love? Why? What did God say about the law?
“For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light (Proverb 6:23)
“The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; the statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart, the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
(Psalm 19:7-8)
The verses that you have provided did not prove that the fruit of the law is love. Show me a verse that says that the fruit of the law is love.
What you say is not written. Prove it. Give me a verse that says that the fruit of the law is love.
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YOU SAID: So how can it be a law of sin and death, how can it worketh wrath?
And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death. (Lev 24:16)
And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. (Num 15:35)
And if he smite him with throwing a stone, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. (Num 35:17)
Remember, and forget not, how thou provokedst the LORD thy God to wrath in the wilderness: from the day that thou didst depart out of the land of Egypt, until ye came unto this place, ye have been rebellious against the LORD. (Deut 9:7)
Also in Horeb ye provoked the LORD to wrath, so that the LORD was angry with you to have destroyed you. (Deut 9:8)
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. (Galatians 3:10)
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YOU SAID: ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT THE OLD COVENANT CAME FROM THE ETERNAL WORD OF GOD, IT WILL NOT VANISH AWAY! (for God’s sake!) How can it vanish away? It is the ETERNAL WORD FROM THE ETERNAL MOUTH Of GOD.
Do you understand the significance of words coming from the ETERNAL MOUTH OF GOD? but it is true there are some that is no longer enforce in the new administration of Jesus Christ. But NEVER use the word CHANGED nor OBSOLETE or VANISH , HOw dare you labelling the ETERNAL WORD coming FROM the ETERNAL MOUTH Of GOD CHANGED? nor VANISH away?
And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death. (Lev 24:16)
Are you following this ETERNAL COMMANDMENT coming from the MOUTH of God?
Answer that please.
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YOU SAID: but it is true there are some that is no longer enforce in the new administration of Jesus Christ.
Who are you not to enforce if it is God’s commandment? Who gave you the authority not to enforce the ETERNAL COMMANDMENT COMING FROM THE ETERNAL MOUTH OF GOD?
Imagine, people are already blaspheming against GOD, disobeying the VERY 1ST COMMANDMENT, and you are not stoning them to death? Why? It is the most important of all commandments, to love your God above anybody else!
Why are you not enforcing it now? That is an ETERNAL COMMANDMENT COMING FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD! Why are you not doing it anymore?
Answer that please!
These are CLEAR EXPLAINATIONS! Sorry for those wicked people who doesn’t want to understand -Daniel 12:10; and to those who cannot receive this saying -Matthew 19:11. Let’s OPEN UP our heart and mind -there might be not enough time left!!!
To Adventist 777,
After going through the point and counter point of the Old Covenant debate, I have come to the conclusion that there is no verse nor reasoning that can ever change your mind regarding the subject. I feel sad for you because I was once like you, a person with a heart of stone. But after ten years of listening to Brother Eli Soriano, THROUGH GOD’S MERCY, I finally accepted the truth and became a member of the Church of God. All I can say to you Brother, is to keep an open mind and keep watching the websites available to you, Theoldpath.tv and untvweb.com, assuming SDA does not prohibit their members from searching for the truth. Maybe one day, with God’s help, you will see the light.
TO SDA 777;
WERE HAPPY FOR YOU THAT YOU DID NOT BELIEVE INC MINISTERS ACCUSSATIONS AGAINST BRO ELI. THEY JUST LOVE FOOLING THERE OWN MIND, THERE WATCHERS AND LISTENERS, THERE LOVE ONES AND THERE SIR MANALO. THEY REALLY LOVE DOING IT EVER SINCE BRO ELI’S PREACHING.
AFTER ALL, THERE MILLIONS, FAVORS, POWERS, AND INFLUINCE THEY GET FROM THE GOVRNMENT HAVE DONE NOTHING TO DO TO DESTROY BRO THE GOD SEND PREACHER OF OUR TIME, BRO ELI SORIANO, AND I KNOW YOU CAN PROVE THAT.WERE SRRY FOR THEM.
HOPE THAT ONE DAY WILL COME THAT sIR MANALO WILL COME OUT FROM HIS PALACE TO DEFEND THERE FAITH AND START TEACHING ALSO THE GOSPHEL FOR THE TIME OF THE END IS COMING SHORTLY.ITE REALLY VERY SHAMEFUL TO THERE MEMBERS THAT THERE BLIND LEADER CANNOT DEFEND THERE DOCTRINES AS WHAT OUR BRO ELI IS DOING UNTIL THIS TIME.
THANK YOU AND TAKE CARE!
TO GOD BE THE GLORY AND HONOR FOREVER!
ADVENTIST 777 92,
1. You said, “OH yes Jet!, you have a very good point there to consider brother, Yes, I am only referring to the writer and not the Author who’s Paul himself. Anyway Thank you! GOT UR POINT! Apollos was only the writer and Paul was the author. Book of the Hebrews is of Paul’s thought.”
a. According to you NOW, the AUTHOR of the book of HEBREWS, is PAUL HIMSELF.
BUT in your post #32, you said:
“Leo, the author of hebrew does not identify himself though
the thought is similar to Paul’s message.
A good candidate is Apollos- leader early messianic movement, mentioned 10x in the New testament, 2x in the books of ACTS, 8X by Paul himself.
…so Paul is not the author of book of Hebrew.”
AHA! So you are changing your views NOW. 🙂
b. Also NOW, you are saying that the WRITER is APOLLOS. You also mentioned in your post #79:
“The reason why Apollos did not put his name on the book is simple , his name will not be acceptable to the hebrew. ”
You know, that is just your conclusion and without basis at all.
Acts 18:18-28, which you presented as evidence is not convincing because there were also other people who were influenced by Paul, even Aquila and Priscilla themselves.
c. I remember you also said in post #21;
“While the author put his own ideas on the prophecy…”
Ha? That is just conclusion again. I think it is you who is putting your own ideas on what the author wrote.
I wonder if you believe in this:
Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
d. Also, you said, in post #21;’
“The author of hebrew started an erroneous presupposition…”
Ha again? That is just your conclusion again. Baseless. You just do not understand it (Dan 12:10).
2. You said, “Oohh! ONly now? but Thanks be to God Praise the Lord! Halleluya! at least you know now! YOu are blessed jet! Hope someday you will be a “Born Again ADD” not by adoption but by birth.”
Sounds like that of a hypocrite. Well, yes only now, because this is not biblical. As usual, this is man-made invention. Oh well, woman-made invention. 😉
3. You said, “With regards to former SDA in UK, There is no need for me to answer her/his querries directly ONE by ONE. ”
Ha? Then you are not following what the apostle Peter admonished Christians, right?
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
…Then the hope is reason of hope is really not in you, right?
4. You said, “take note, Do not degrade Ms. Ellen just because she is a woman.”
I am not. She did degrade herself when she led your group, which is against the bible.
5. You said, “Besides I already have my Pastor,- JESUS CHRIST my legitimate pastor strictly speaking .”
Hereby making egw your illegitimate pastor – pastoress, pastress, etc… HAHAHA! 🙂
5. You said, “Brother Jet do you know that in essense there is no difference between a “born again adventist” and a born again add””
INVENTION! NOT BIBLICAL!
Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
6. You said, “Jet here is another problem. Paul is like a Chameleon in I Corinthians 9:19-22. Right jet?”
WRONG! I remember one 1 william. I think you are what you said Paul is.
7. You prayed, “Dear master Jesus, I thank you my beloved leader and master for this truth for revealing this to babes! Yes, dear lord for such was your gracious will.”
You must be really one of those HYPOCRITES. Jesus said:
Matthew 6:5 ¶And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
No wonder:
2 Corinthians 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
ADVENTIST 777 92,
One more thing also about you saying, “Apollos was only the writer and Paul was the author”
You know, read again POST #70. WHO REALLY DID WRiTE?
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
Paul did. Not only that He was the AUTHOR. He was also the writer. 🙂 And not Apollos as you concluded. You not only believe in helen g white. You also believe in martin luther. 🙂
Read this:
James 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
🙂
To Jet
(ON HYPOCRISY)
note: jet we have a good disccussion here, and you interrupted me with your malicious intent.
Jet wrote and quoted: Read it again. REMEMBER, we are talking about the AUTHOR here, not the WRITER. Do you agree? James 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
my response: Brother, Do not conclude that my faith is questionable, it is not my faith that is wavering nor me being a double- minded man. My only problems lies in this two words, WRITER and AUTHOR. When you posted the ff:
“REMEMBER, we are talking about the AUTHOR here, not the WRITER”
I realized my error, but it is not my faith that is wavering. (YOUR ABOVE CONCLUSION IS WRONG!) but my understanding of the word author and writer. I mistakenly used word author for writer and that is an honest mistake.
It is indeed true that the writer is apollos because paul style of writing is significantly different as I’ve pointed out before. Apollos has a very systematic strait forward line of thought from which he does not swerve. His greek language is superior to Paul simply because Apollos is a greek jew. Yes Paul was the Author, because the thought of hebrew correspond to his line of thought.
Is it clear now jet?
—————————————————————
You wrote and quoted: You prayed, “Dear master Jesus, I thank you my beloved leader and master for this truth for revealing this to babes! Yes, dear lord for such was your gracious will.”You must be really one of those HYPOCRITES. Jesus said:Matthew 6:5 ¶And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
my response: Brother do not misrepresent me here. If glorfying Jesus is hypocrisy, then we are all liable for that matter, because even the members of Church of God international in this forum most of the time proclaimed at the end of their articles: ” Glory be to God !!!! etc. “, Now when I acted the same way with the same intention gloryfying Jesus only ONCE (take note) in my entire post you called me hypocrite? Well, It is understandable, you are just following the way of your apostle. He taught you….”Be imitators of me”. And you imitated him! Why?
Remember his letter in Galatian, when he upraids Peter in public for being DOUBLE FACED? Their issue is about circumcision and when Peter acted the same way, with the same intent, doing exactly what Paul recommended for his congregations, he uses it as an excuse to debase the Apostle in public and to applaud himself. that’s hypocrisy! Remember jet your apostle is anti-circumcision and yet he circumcised timothy. (read Galatian 5:2-4 versus Acts 16:1-3 for verification)He is untrue to his own covenant. a chameleon & hypocrite.
…..to the jew he become a jew………to the gentiles, he become a gentiles………..he is within the law…………but above it………he is outside the law yet he has no need of it………..
Again, our lord Jesus christ did not accomplish this chameleonetic feat, nor did he try, that’s why he earned their hatred and contempt.
He even disobeyed Jesus when he swore in the name of heaven. He called God and the holy spirit to witness for him and vigorously denied that he was a liar. Jet, repetitive denials of accusations suggest guilt. Do you agree? It is a strong evidence that the charges against him were true, remember , 4 times, as in 4x in the NT (to the corinthians, galatians, romans and to timothy) that he denied that he was a liar. Three times jet as in 3 x to the Corinthians, Galatian and to timothy the denials were issued about his claims of BEING AN APOSTLE.
So jet who accused him of lying? Any idea?
IN summation, do not ever called my brother william hypocrite, as a matter of fact the moderators of this forum did william an injustice by cutting him at the middle of his discussions with the so called bright men of your church. they can freely post while he cannot? Is it fair?
Anyway, those are evidences that your apostle is a perfect chameleon, hypocrite and disobedient. Refute it!
To elsden
Yes, I agree, those magkakabarkada na naglulukuhan sa channel 25 are a good example of the perfect hypocrite in action and not us in this forum. They stand and pray in Television as if they are so religious, but by doing so they have their own rewards.
Minister Soriano is in exile because of them, of their malicious thought and intentions influencing our justice department even our government to perform a sort of injustice to your beloved minister.
I know and I understand by heart and thought, that their dogmas and traditions (especially influencing the will of their members to vote) are the worst in Pauline christianity.
In that sense I am with you!
TO GOD BE THE GLORY AND HONOR FOREVER TOO!
Thank you!
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: my response: Can you cite a verse that Paul indeed assigned by Christ to be an apostle.? Can you show me his witnesses? NOt him testifying for himself. Remember Jesus taught us how to testify.
Acts 14:14 “Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out”
It is not Paul who wrote the Book of the Acts … The writer himself acknowledges both Barnabas and Paul as apostles.
————-
YOU SAID: my response: I see no contradiction in my statements above. Can you please tell me the contradiction? What contradiction are you talking about? The first paragraph is about INQUIRY, while the 2nd paragraph is about PROVING that the Law is indeed a curse. End of your so called contradiction!
Check again and may you see your own foolishness.
YOU SAID: So, tony is the Law worketh wrath, Is it the law of sin and death? And can we say that from the law comes the knowledge of sin? God forbid! If not, then why do you like to nullify it?
Your INQUIRY is a leading question which gives the answer: The law does not worketh wrath, the law is not of sin and death, and knowledge of sin does not come from the law.
These imply that the law is not cursed! You even answered your own inquiry. “GOD FORBID!”
Now, how about your other statement?
YOU SAID: The law is a cursed Why? from that law comes the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20, that law worketh wrath (Romans 4:15), that law is sin and death ( Romans 8:2).
Now by quoting Paul’s statements: You affirm that the law is cursed, from that law comes knowledge of sin, the law worketh wrath and that law is sin and death..
That is your reason in your attempt to prove that the law is cursed. You are truly contradicting your own statements!
YOU ASKED: Question: Tony in your own opinion do you have the heart & mind of an INC fanatic?
MY RESPONSE: I think you do. You are truly lost.
To tony:
On Gender
Tony wrote: Even angels which are spirits are even called as “sons of God”. They are male in gender. Even God which is Spirit is called as “Father” which is male in gender.
Where in the Bible have you ever read that there will be no more gender in Heaven? Can you show me any verse please?
my response: Brother tony, By extracting the essene of thought in the Bible proves that God has no gender. Hebrew has no words for neutral gender and for convenience’ sake, Male personification is used.
God is unbegotten, He is unborn, He is of course beyond all human description and intellect but in AN ATTEMPT to understand something of what God is, the writers of the bible ascribed humanly attributes to him. Therefore God then is not a human concept nor does He approximate to any human ideas about him. do you follow tony?
Therefore do not be mislead by the literal interpretation of yours. God is a spirit and spirit has no gender. How can the Great Spirit has gender? Prior to creation there is no distinction. Prior to creation there was no flesh. God is beyond duality, duality arises only in the seen and unseen creation like the presence of good and evil or right and wrong & male and female. God is the the ETERNAL ONE, He is not a father nor a mother in literal sense. God is not a male spirit simply because spirit genderless. Perhaps you are referring to astral (ghostly form) or causal body? but even those are part of duality.
But spirit by itself has no Gender. Do you understand tony? To put an antrophomorphic figures to a spirit is unimaginable.
God- Words- gods – Genderless in essence. We (gods) being the spark of that Spirit is also like him.
The “Father”, The “Son” is figurative. The “Father” denotes father-ly figure, likewise the “Son” denotes son-ly figure.
Let me show you how dangerous literal interpretation is:
From the bible we read:
…….the Son of man in heaven (matthew 24:30)
…….but i tell you hereafter you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power.( Matthew 26:64)
……..and then they will see the son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory (Luke 21:27)
…….But from now on the Son of man shall be seated at the right hand of the power of God” (Luke 22:69).
Tony our lord Jesus christ is fond of designating himself the term “Son of Man” at least 82x in the synoptics. It is his favorite self designation.
so interpreting it literally (as it is) obviously prove that Jesus is not God but a man and therefore the INC is correct. And we are all wrong, but Nay, it is ONLY FIGURATIVE. and therefore all of them (INC) err in understanding.
Tony why do you always follow the precept of the INC? Are you an INC member before? Do I still need to read your thought and mind to prove that you have the heart and thought of an INC fanatic?
—————————————————————–
(ON the COVENANT)
Tony wrote: it is still the same commandment? Hey, why can’t you also mention “NEW COVENANT”? No further comment. My 10 year old nephew is laughing beside me. I bought him a new pair of shoes last week and he told me that it’s definitely not the same as the old one. I think he understood the point.
my response: Tony, for the hardness of your heart let us post the verse again and dissect it one by one.
“Behold the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not according to the covenant that I made with their
fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenantwhich they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord, but this is the covenant that I willmake with the house of Israel after those days, says the lord: i will put MY LAWS in their mind
and write IT on their heart and I will be their god and they shall be MY people ( Jeremiah 31:31-33)
…….I will make a new covenant with the house of ISRAEL and JUDAH
…….not according to the covenant which they broke….
…….but this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days…….I will put MY LAWS in their mind and write IT on their heart and I will be their God and they shall be my people
What did he mean by the word “not according to the covenant which they broke? What covenant? is it not the Covenant written in Stone?
What did he mean by the word ” I will make a new covenant” Is it not the New Covenant that will be written in their hearts ( no more in the tablets of stone) but in their heart?
See tony? this is the covenant (new covenant) by God that He will make with the house of Israel after those days: HE WILL PUT HIS LAWS IN THEIR MIND. (“I will put MY LAWS in their mind and write IT on their heart “)
In short: the new covenant is not a new and different law tony, it is the same identical law, the only difference is that JUdah and Israel will be given a new heart (new covenant) for them to fully understand the Law.
See Tony? You misunderstood the new covenant for Judah and Israel. The problem is your habit of literalization.
and to make the statement below more clearer let us hear prophet Ezekiel
“For i will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean, I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and and from all your idols .. I WILL GIVE YOU A NEW HEART AND PUT A NEW SPIRIT WITHIN YOU AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU WILL KEEP MY JUDGMENT AND DO THEM ( Ezekiel 36: 24-27)
OK? so tony bring now your 10 year old nephew wearing his new pair of shoes, and let him read my post, if he is an attentive child & a smart kid, I can assure you he will stand and say : ” Uncle tony, you err in understanding”!
————————————————————-
Tony wrote: (God curses and has wrath). Does that make Him unholy and evil? If the law worketh wrath to those who are disobedient, does that make the law unholy and evil? Wake up!2. (It is a law of sin and death). Those who grievously commit sin against the law of Moses, were put to death. What then is your problem? Does that make the law bad and unholy?3. (Comes the knowledge of sin). By means of the law, God wanted you to know what is sin!Does that make the law bad and unholy? Don’t you still get it? Wake up!
my response: tony sometimes we need to manipulate our spiritual opponent in such a way as to accomplish our purpose while, at the same time, letting him feel that he made a good proposition but in essence, we are the one who draws him to make such presentation. So tony, You equate now the Law & God and claiming that the law is indeed holy, good and spiritual. so why do you want to nullify it? What is the point of making it obsolete? Jesus did not nullify the law of moses, He stiffined, condensed, simplified and universalized it in order for it to be a matter of heart and thought.
Do you understand now tony that there are two, YES! , TWO THINGS that will not pass away: “the law as delivered by moses (which was stiffined, condensed, universalized, simplified by Jesus or simply magnified by Jesus as prophecied) and the word delivered by Jesus, the two stand together while heaven and earth endure.
to be continued………………..
To tony:
(Contradiction)
Tony wrote: Check again and may you see your own foolishness.
Your INQUIRY is a leading question which gives the answer: The law does not worketh wrath, the law is not of sin and death, and knowledge of sin does not come from the law.
These imply that the law is not cursed! You even answered your own inquiry. “GOD FORBID!”
Now, how about your other statement?
YOU SAID: The law is a cursed Why? from that law comes the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20, that law worketh wrath (Romans 4:15), that law is sin and death ( Romans 8:2).
Now by quoting Paul’s statements: You affirm that the law is cursed, from that law comes knowledge of sin, the law worketh wrath and that law is sin and death..
That is your reason in your attempt to prove that the law is cursed. You are truly contradicting your own statements!
my response: Tony, there is no contradiction, contradiction only lies in your head for failing to comprehend the significance of both statements. The former is a leading inquiry, it is a reverse psychology, it is a manipulation on my side to accomplish my purpose . While the latter is my straightforward statement proving that the law is indeeed bring a curse, or there is really a curse in that law. Do you understand now tony? NO foolishness tony, its all just a by- product of your corrupted mind!
——————————————————————
Tony wrote:The verses that you have provided did not prove that the fruit of the law is love. Show me a verse that says that the fruit of the law is love.What you say is not written. Prove it. Give me a verse that says that the fruit of the law is love
my response: Tony, True bible is our guide but it doesnt mean that there is no need for us to leave our brain behind, as a matter of fact, if we are chosen, our mind is the one that will lead us to see and understand the hidden message in the scriptures. There are many things in the bible that should not be taken literally or as it is. Most of us are reading, yes reading without ceasing and yet understanding not the essence of the parable. Sometimes we need to extract the thought of the message in order for us to comprehend the sublime teachings of the Father. If we will focus on the literalization, then philosophical diffulties will arise. Tony it is God who gave us our mind to be our servant, our guide to search for truth, we must use this god’s given gift along the way to arrive in that truth. Tony our mind, our thoughts is not always about foolishness and wickedness as long as we are the master of ourselves and we are in control of our mind then, mind serves its purpose as our trusted servant but once the mind becomes the master of the house then problem will arise.Do you follow tony? The sweeper must always be under his master not the other way around for it to serve its purpose.
to be continued…………….
ADVENTIST 777 103,
1. You said, “I realized my error, but it is not my faith that is wavering. (YOUR ABOVE CONCLUSION IS WRONG!) but my understanding of the word author and writer. I mistakenly used word author for writer and that is an honest mistake.”
Ok, I’ll accept it as an honest mistake. But if only your faith had taught you that, you wouldn’t have made that kind of mistake, right? THAT SHOULD SPEAK A LOT ABOUT YOUR FAITH.
2. You said, “It is indeed true that the writer is apollos because paul style of writing is significantly different as I’ve pointed out before.”
Unfortunately, it is still not clear. Remember, I have given you verses from the bible itself proving that PAUL was the AUTHOR of the book of HEBREWS. Even verses proving that he was the WRITER also.
But never did you give any verses proving concretely that Apollos was the writer. Well, you gave Acts 18:18-28, which is not even close. Why?
a. Wasn’t there anyone other than Apollos whose greek language is superior to Paul?
c. Wasn’t there any greek jew who was or were influenced than Paul?
Your theories are not convincing after all.
Read again posts #70 and 102 so you’ll know biblically who really authored and wrote the book of hebrews.
3. You said, “my response: Brother do not misrepresent me here. If glorfying Jesus is hypocrisy, then we are all liable for that matter, because even the members of Church of God international in this forum most of the time proclaimed at the end of their articles: ” Glory be to God !!!! etc. “, Now when I acted the same way with the same intention gloryfying Jesus only ONCE (take note) in my entire post you called me hypocrite?”
I never said glorifying Jesus is hypocrisy. See? You do not even understand the verses I showed you. Read from verse 1 onwards of that chapter and YOU WILL SEE IF EVER YOU WILL REALLY SEE what HYPOCRISY really means.
4. You said, “Well, It is understandable, you are just following the way of your apostle. He taught you….”Be imitators of me”. And you imitated him! Why?”
The fact that YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND MATTHEW 6:5-6, OF WHOM YOU SAY YOU BELIEVE IN (though I doubt it), makes no wonder why YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND what somebody, WHOM YOU DO NOT BELEIVE IN, wrote. 🙂
5. You said, “IN summation, do not ever called my brother william hypocrite, as a matter of fact the moderators of this forum did william an injustice by cutting him at the middle of his discussions with the so called bright men of your church. they can freely post while he cannot? Is it fair? ”
As to moderations, I also had comments/replies, which were not posted here. I think it’s just fair.
But the fact the you call WILLIAM YOUR BROTHER, when you did what you did in post #92, makes him ONE LIKE YOU also. 🙂 You made him what you are.
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: my response: Brother tony, By extracting the essene of thought in the Bible proves that God has no gender. Hebrew has no words for neutral gender and for convenience’ sake, Male personification is used. God is unbegotten, He is unborn, He is of course beyond all human description and intellect but in AN ATTEMPT to understand something of what God is, the writers of the bible ascribed humanly attributes to him.
——————
First of all, be clarified that what I specifically meant when I said God is male in gender is not pertained with sexuality. I used that term to signify that God preferred to be known as Male and not Female and it is not just like as simple as the personification that you are mentioning.
Let me show you my point.
God preferred to be known as Male and not Female. This is clearly seen through the angel that represented Him when He spoke to Moses and Israel. God chose to be Male even when presented by the angel which spoke to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
It is not because it is just AN ATTEMPT of the writers as you claim to say to ascribe Him to be but because He preferred to be known as Male. I hope you get my point.
Furthermore, even Angels which are called sons of God, were also males when they took the form of man. Christ, the begotten Son, took the form of a male human being as well. All these supports the fact that all leaders which were sent by God are males and not females.
That is basically the point of our main discussion. It is about MALE LEADERS.
For, if that is of no significance as you claim to say, why weren’t there any FEMALE LEADERS appointed by God to lead His people? Why chose ALL to be MEN (Male). Why the SON, must took the body of a MALE as well? Why do ANGELS took the form of MALE human beings and not female?
Why never a woman or a female? Answer that with a verse please!!!!
As per our side, Bro. Eli has explained it very well with you, citing so many verses but you simply just cannot accept it. Biblically, God promised and preferred man (male) and not woman (female) to be leaders of His people:
(1 King 9:5) “Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel.”
(Jeremiah 33:17) “For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel…”
To have women as leader or ruler would mean that the nation is in err and destroyed.
(Isaiah 3:12) “As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.”
(1 Timothy 2:11-14) “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.”
Christ never said “ONLY” in his pronouncement. What he clearly said is:
Mat. 23:8 “But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.”
You keep on adding the word “ONLY” whereinfact it was never mentioned by Christ. It is just your addition.
Christ appointed apostles and prophets to lead the church. You said they are not legitimates.
What verse says that the apostles and prophets appointed by Christ to lead his people are illegitimates? Does Christ appoint illegitimates?
Answer that and provide a verse please!
To tony:
(Curse)
Tony quoted: For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. (Galatians 3:10)
“Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law (Galatians 3:13)
my response: Tony, bear in mind and put it in your heart that the law brings death only to the lawless, those who refused to obey it, while the obedience to it gives life and blessings
(Do you know who are those lawless men mentioned by PETER? remember Peter is faithful to the law.) any idea?
Tony read proverbs 13: 14, proverb 6:23 & Deut. 13:19-20 for verification.
again tony put it in your heart that the only one who can redeemed us from the curse of disobedience is God (& Jesus) through his forgiveness and ourselves through repentance prayer and obedience. No human can pay for the penalty of sin but the the guilty himself ( Read Deut. 24:16, and Ezekiel 18:20–22 for verification)
—————————–
Tony wrote:Are you following this ETERNAL COMMANDMENT coming from the MOUTH of God?
Answer that please.
Who are you not to enforce if it is God’s commandment? Who gave you the authority not to enforce the ETERNAL COMMANDMENT COMING FROM THE ETERNAL MOUTH OF GOD?
Imagine, people are already blaspheming against GOD, disobeying the VERY 1ST COMMANDMENT, and you are not stoning them to death? Why? It is the most important of all commandments, to love your God above anybody else!
Why are you not enforcing it now? That is an ETERNAL COMMANDMENT COMING FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD! Why are you not doing it anymore?
Answer that please!
my response: Tony, Bear in mind that my only Legitimate leader is Jesus Christ our lord. And so in the kingdom of God, in the administration of my king, there are some ETERNAL COMMANDMENT that is no longer enforce. but take note those ETERNAL COMMANDMENTS THAT ARE NO LONGER ENFORCE ARE NOT OBSOLETE, IT IS STILL THERE, (AS a matter of fact, MY KING STIFFINED, CONDENSED, SIMPLIFIED and UNIVERSALIZED IT, for IT to becomes a matter of HEART and THOUGHT) because IT COMETH FROM THE ETERNAL MOUTH OF GOD. DO NOT EVER USED THE WORD CHANGED OR OBSOLETE. (Remember the Prophecy of Jeremiah for JUDAH and ISRAEL?) The two will stand, The ETERNAL COMMANDMENT OF GOD, and the NEW COMMANDMENT of JESUS CHRIST – the king. Brother tony, The Messiah will not slay the TORAH, HE did magnify it as prophecied. (And this issue has been explained already in lenght in previous articles!)
For you to be able to understand better, always remember tony the unchanging nature of God. HIs character is immutable, he never worsened or bettered. He remains the same. He does not change both in his being and his will. All those things that HE is doing since the start of everything up to the end is according to his infallible and unchanging plan. Do you follow tony? HE IS FAITHFUL TO HIMSELF & HIS WORKS.
Those so called changing nature of God in the bible are the faults of the writers, for they are unable to fully express God in the letter of alphabet and domain of arithmetic and we cannot blame them. Why? To whom can they likened God?
Tony bear in mind and put this into your heart. : He is infinite right? therefore He is IMMUTABLE.
Stay with me tony!
———————————————————————–
For Tony: (Apostle)
Tony quoted and wrote: Acts 14:14 “Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out”
It is not Paul who wrote the Book of the Acts … The writer himself acknowledges both Barnabas and Paul as apostles.
my response: Yes, it is luke who wrote the book of ACTS. But who is luke? Luke is the travelling companion and personal physician of Paul, his very close comrade or simply his press secretary. LUke’s the only one who called himself an apostle twice, yes in ACTS 14:14 & 14: while almost twentyX he called himself an apostle. Yes SELF-PROMOTION. He is never called an apostle by Jesus nor by any of his original apostles.
And by the way tony, Barnabas have no record claiming that he is indeed an apostle. In our government Luke is like Sec. Ermita or Sec Bunye, look at the way they praise our President, look at the way they lied to the people of the philippines just to cover up the mistakes of their President.
Well, anyway, the truth is his apostleship was not recognized by others. And who were those “others” who challenged his apostleship? allow me to give you clues:
But first of all, I want you to understand that for him HE IS THE GREATEST APOSTLE.
“For I consider that I am not at all inferior to the MOST IMINENT APOSTLES? ….As the truth of christ is in me, no one shall stop me FROM THIS BOASTING in the regions of Achaia. ( II Cor. 11:5-10)
…….NO one shall stop me from boasting…….
But look He was so humble, very humble!!!
“For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain. BUT I LABORED MORE ABUNDANTLY THEN THEY ALL (I cor. 15:9-10).
But Tony, Do we need to praise ourselves for our abundant work? answer please!!!
The clues:
“But from those WHO SEEMED TO ME SOMETHING, whatever THEY WERE, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man, FOR THOSE WHO SEEMED to be something ADDED NOTHING TO ME, but on the contrary, when they saw me, and when JAMES, CEPHAS and JOHN WHO SEEMED to BE PILLARS, percieved the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and BARNABAS the right hand of fellowship. (Gal. 2:6-9)
He said, “they were nothing to him those seemed to be pillars” , It’s an insult. Who were those pillars? REMEMBER TONY HE IS THE ONE SPEAKING.
“…………Are they Israelites? So am I, are they seed of Abraham? So am I, ARe they minister of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I AM MORE, IN LABORS MORE ABUNDANT, IN STRIPES ABOVE MEASURE, IN PRISONS MORE FREQUENT, IN DEATH OFT…..(etc. etc) (II Cor. 11-16-12, 19).
(do we need to praise our abundant work tony? )
So tony, it is indeed true that OTHERS did not accept his apostleship.
…….have I not seen Jesus our lord?
…….IF TO OTHERS, I am not an apostle, at least i am to you, for you are the seal of my apostleship in the LOrd ( I Cor. 9:1-2)
(yes for tony he is an apostle)
ANY IDEA TONY ABOUT the ……… “OTHERS”? or sirit k na?
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: See tony? this is the covenant (new covenant) by God that He will make with the house of Israel after those days: HE WILL PUT HIS LAWS IN THEIR MIND. (”I will put MY LAWS in their mind and write IT on their heart “)
In short: the new covenant is not a new and different law tony, it is the same identical law, the only difference is that JUdah and Israel will be given a new heart (new covenant) for them to fully understand the Law.
————–
Let us place the verses that you have provided:
but this is the covenant that I willmake with the house of Israel after those days, says the lord: i will put MY LAWS in their mind and write IT on their heart and I will be their god and they shall be MY people ( Jeremiah 31:33)
Isn’t it the same thing that the Apostle Paul is speaking of? Let us read:
Heb. 8:10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:”
Now, what law shall be written? Did God said “I will put THE SAME IDENTICAL LAWS into their mind and write them in their hearts”?
That is not what is written. It is just your own conclusion! You just cannot keep on adding to what is written. You are truly a liar. The covenant which was given to Israel, written in 2 tablestones are the 10 commandments:
(Deuteronomy 4:13) “And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.”
If we will go ahead with your claim that what will be written in the hearts of Christians are “THE SAME IDENTICAL LAWS”, how come Christ’s teachings are not IDENTICAL with what you claim?
Mat 5:21 “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:”
That is what is given to Israel in the tablestones. What is now being written into the hearts under the “new covenant”? Is it “THE SAME IDENTICAL LAWS”?
Mat 5:22 “But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”
They are not identical. I don’t know if you understand the word identical but these commandments are not IDENTICAL.
Here’s another one:
Mat 5:43 “Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy.”
That is for Israel.
Mat. 5:44 “But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;”
Are they identical? As far as I understand, the word “BUT” signifies two different things. How can they be IDENTICAL as you claim them to be?
You claim that the NEW COVENANT implies the same commandments being given and was just a matter of placement (from tablestones to hearts)
How come Christ teaches a “NEW COMMANDMENT”?
John 13:34 “A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.”
How can all these be IDENTICAL? Answer that with verses please!
To ADventist777,
YOU SAID: OK? so tony bring now your 10 year old nephew wearing his new pair of shoes, and let him read my post, if he is an attentive child & a smart kid, I can assure you he will stand and say : ” Uncle tony, you err in understanding”!
——–
After comparing your erroneous conclusion with that of the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, he said that he thinks he is even smarter than you for understanding the difference. I told him no, because your kind always think that they are the wisest.
He also looked at his new pair of shoes and also compared it with the old one. He said that they definitely don’t look IDENTICAL!
He knows the meaning of Identical. He has cousins who are Identical Twins.
Thank you.
To Adventist777,
CONTRADICTION OF ADVENTIST777:
YOU SAID: So, tony is the Law worketh wrath, Is it the law of sin and death? And can we say that from the law comes the knowledge of sin? God forbid! If not, then why do you like to nullify it?
YOU SAID: The law is a cursed Why? from that law comes the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20, that law worketh wrath (Romans 4:15), that law is sin and death ( Romans 8:2).
NOW YOU EXPLAINED: The former is a leading inquiry, it is a reverse psychology, it is a manipulation on my side to accomplish my purpose . While THE LATTER IS MY STRAIGHTFORWARD STATEMENT proving that the law is indeeed bring a curse, or there is really a curse in that law. Do you understand now tony? NO foolishness tony, its all just a by- product of your corrupted mind!
—————-
Tsk! Tsk! Tsk! You are now disclaiming what you said before that the law is not cursed. You simply cannot admit your error. How can we ever trust a Liar pretending to be a teacher of the law? I regret to say this but you don’t make a good psychologist … an excellent Liar, may be more appropriate.
You clearly answered your own question that the law is not a curse and let me place them again. You said in # 48:
REF # 48: “So, tony is the Law worketh wrath, Is it the law of sin and death? And can we say that from the law comes the knowledge of sin? GOD FORBID!
It is not a reverse psychology. You truly believe that the law is not a cursed contradicting your other statement that the law is a cursed! Your repeated statements prove that! Let me post your other statement according to # 58:
REF # 58: In addition, we are now on the fruits of the Law, which is LOVE. According to st. Paul the Law is the schoolmaster in order for us to attain that state of Love. Then why did he mention that this same law is a cursed for us? HOw can it be? How can a schoolmaster become a cursed for us? IT CANNOT BE! So to nuliffy our schoolmaster is completely wrong. Do you get what I mean? or do you not?
He he he … The above is too far obvious for you to make any excuse. I hope you had seen your own foolishness and ignorance. Check your STRAIGHTFORWARD statement again and again and again and again. Then answer this:
Who’s mind then is really corrupted?
You really need a new covenant with a new heart, a new mind, a new mouth and a new being. Paul is correct. Bro. Eli is correct and you are a Liar. Repent also for using God’s name in vain.
May God have mercy on your soul.
Correction on post #107 It should be ” True, the bible is our guide but it doesnt mean that we have to leave our brain behind”
Thank you!
For tony and jet
to tony:
(No Contradiction)
note: If i commited a mistake or err in understanding, i can assure you it’s an honest mistake. And i will apologize for it. (For e.g. the issue about writer & author of hebrew) But to admit something that is really not a contradiction is very hard for me to do. Tony, truly, truly, truly I say to you misunderstood me!
My stand from the very start is this: The law is not a cursed. The fruit of the law is love. (the key is obedience). The law of Christ is about Obedience to the will of the FAther meaning you have to work for your own salvation. Jesus did not nullify the law, he molded it into a new form for it to become a matter of heart and thought remember magnification, stiffining, condensing, simplification & universalizing? while adding his new commandments. The TWO WILL STAND, while the Law of Paul is law of laziness and lawlesness of grace and faith alone.
Let me illustrate the source of your confusion
—————————————————————————
P1: The law worketh wrath, through the law comes the knowledge of sin, it is the law of sin and death. the law is ministration of condemnation
Versus
P2: The law is holy, the law is spiritual, the law is good
———————————————————————-
The law is a schoolmaster (tutor) that will lead to christ)
Versus:
P1
——————————————————————–
The law is Obsolote
Versus:
P2
——————————————————————–
Tony for you the law is already obsolete, the law of laziness and lawlessness of Paul is now the way of salvation, Therefore the law must be nullified.
We have an opposing view tony from the very start. Then how come in the middle of the discussion I will believe in you that the law must be nullifed? I will become NON-SENSE right? NOn-sensical so to speak! Right? But that is not the case tony, the problem lies on your faulty understanding.
The problem is you, for failing to understand the context, thought & intention of my post.
I sometimes utilized a leading inquiry to manipulate you, to prove that in your face that your belief is indeed false, I used your belief against you, AS SIMPLE AS THAT tony.
for. eg. i told you b4, if bro. eli is P1, he can never lead you to understand the saying of Jesus? But if bro. eli is P2 he can indeed show you the way. DO YOU UNDERSTAND TONY? Then you paired God with the Law, in that sense you validated that the law is indeed good, holy and spiritual b’coz you likened the Law with God, So I asked you: What is the point of making it obsolete or nuliffying it?
TONY MY STAND WILL NEVER WAVER: THE LAW IS NOT A CURSE!……..that’s why I am here, If i agree with your thought already then what is the point of our discussion? Make up your mind tony! the contradiction is only your illusion created by your corrupted mind.
Stay with me tony!
————————————————————————–
To jet:
You need to be a Keen observer and Open-minded in order for you to see the difference between the writer of Gospel to the hebrew and Paul. If your mental sunglasses is so thick because of religious conditioning then it is hard for you to detect the difference.
Brother re-read all the epistles of paul and study carefully his style of writings, his personality and attitude and compare it to gospel of hebrew. Paul in his pen proves that HE IS A SELF-PROMOTER, he uses a lot personal pronoun, If you are indeed a true researcher and studied the works of Paul you will understand what i mean but if you are ONLY a closed minded believer then there is no way for you to see the difference, you will never grow, You will die as a blind believer, who is ignorant of the truth.
I am still waiting for your counter-arguments or refutation regarding my accusation that Paul is indeed a chameleon, hypocrite and disobedient. Stand on your ground jet and kindly create a sensible arguments.
For tony and jet
to tony:
(No Contradiction)
note: If i commited a mistake or err in understanding, i can assure you it’s an honest mistake. And i will apologize for it. (For e.g. the issue about writer & author of hebrew) But to admit something that is really not a contradiction is very hard for me to do. Tony, truly, truly, truly I say to you misunderstood me!
My stand from the very start is this: The law is not a cursed. The fruit of the law is love. (the key is obedience). The law of Christ is about Obedience to the will of the FAther meaning you have to work for your own salvation. Jesus did not nullify the law, he molded it into a new form for it to become a matter of heart and thought remember magnification, stiffining, condensing, simplification & universalizing? while adding his new commandments. The TWO WILL STAND, while the Law of Paul is law of laziness and lawlesness of grace and faith alone.
Let me illustrate the source of your confusion
—————————————————————————
P1: The law worketh wrath, through the law comes the knowledge of sin, it is the law of sin and death. the law is ministration of condemnation
Versus
P2: The law is holy, the law is spiritual, the law is good
———————————————————————-
The law is a schoolmaster (tutor) that will lead to christ)
Versus:
P1
——————————————————————–
The law is Obsolote
Versus:
P2
——————————————————————–
Tony for you the law is already obsolete, the law of laziness and lawlessness of Paul is now the way of salvation, Therefore the law must be nullified.
We have an opposing view tony from the very start. Then how come in the middle of the discussion I will believe in you that the law must be nullifed? I will become NON-SENSE right? NOn-sensical so to speak! Right? But that is not the case tony, the problem lies on your faulty understanding.
The problem is you, for failing to understand the context, thought & intention of my post.
I sometimes utilized a leading inquiry to manipulate you, to prove that in your face that your belief is indeed false, I used your belief against you, AS SIMPLE AS THAT tony.
for. eg. i told you b4, if bro. eli is P1, he can never lead you to understand the saying of Jesus? But if bro. eli is P2 he can indeed show you the way. DO YOU UNDERSTAND TONY? Then you paired God with the Law, in that sense you validated that the law is indeed good, holy and spiritual b’coz you likened the Law with God, So I asked you: What is the point of making it obsolete or nuliffying it?
TONY MY STAND WILL NEVER WAVER: THE LAW IS NOT A CURSE!……..that’s why I am here, If i agree with your thought already then what is the point of our discussion? Make up your mind tony! the contradiction is only your illusion created by your corrupted mind.
Stay with me tony!
————————————————————————–
To jet:
You need to be a Keen observer and Open-minded in order for you to see the difference between the writer of Gospel to the hebrew and Paul. If your mental sunglasses is so thick because of religious conditioning then it is hard for you to detect the difference.
Brother re-read all the epistles of paul and study carefully his style of writings, his personality and attitude and compare it to gospel of hebrew. Paul in his pen proves that HE IS A SELF-PROMOTER, he uses a lot personal pronoun, If you are indeed a true researcher and studied the works of Paul you will understand what i mean but if you are ONLY a closed minded believer then there is no way for you to see the difference, you will never grow, You will die as a blind believer, who is ignorant of the truth.
I am still waiting for your counter-arguments or refutation regarding my accusation that Paul is indeed a chameleon, hypocrite and disobedient. Stand on your ground and kindly create a sensible arguments.
For tony and jet
to tony:
(No Contradiction)
note: If i commited a mistake or err in understanding, i can assure you it’s an honest mistake. And i will apologize for it. (For e.g. the issue about writer & author of hebrew) But to admit something that is really not a contradiction is very hard for me to do. Tony, truly, truly, truly I say to you misunderstood me!
My stand from the very start is this: The law is not a cursed. The fruit of the law is love. (the key is obedience). The law of Christ is about Obedience to the will of the FAther meaning you have to work for your own salvation. Jesus did not nullify the law, he molded it into a new form for it to become a matter of heart and thought remember magnification, stiffining, condensing, simplification & universalizing? while adding his new commandments. The TWO WILL STAND, while the Law of Paul is law of laziness and lawlesness of grace and faith alone.
Let me illustrate the source of your confusion
—————————————————————————
P1: The law worketh wrath, through the law comes the knowledge of sin, it is the law of sin and death. the law is ministration of condemnation
Versus
P2: The law is holy, the law is spiritual, the law is good
———————————————————————-
The law is a schoolmaster (tutor) that will lead to christ)
Versus:
P1
——————————————————————–
The law is Obsolote
Versus:
P2
——————————————————————–
Tony for you the law is already obsolete, the law of laziness and lawlessness of Paul is now the way of salvation, Therefore the law must be nullified.
We have an opposing view tony from the very start. Then how come in the middle of the discussion I will believe in you that the law must be nullifed? I will become NON-SENSE right? NOn-sensical so to speak! Right? But that is not the case tony, the problem lies on your faulty understanding.
The problem is you, for failing to understand the context, thought & intention of my post.
I sometimes utilized a leading inquiry to manipulate you, to prove that in your face that your belief is indeed false, I used your belief against you, AS SIMPLE AS THAT tony.
for. eg. i told you b4, if bro. eli is P1, he can never lead you to understand the saying of Jesus? But if bro. eli is P2 he can indeed show you the way. DO YOU UNDERSTAND TONY? Then you paired God with the Law, in that sense you validated that the law is indeed good, holy and spiritual b’coz you likened the Law with God, So I asked you: What is the point of making it obsolete or nuliffying it?
TONY MY STAND WILL NEVER WAVER: THE LAW IS NOT A CURSE!……..that’s why I am here, If i agree with your thought already then what is the point of our discussion? Make up your mind tony! the contradiction is only your illusion created by your corrupted mind.
Stay with me tony!
————————————————————————–
To jet:
You need to be a Keen observer and Open-minded in order for you to see the difference between the writer of Gospel to the hebrew and Paul. If your mental sunglasses is so thick because of religious conditioning then it is hard for you to detect the difference.
Brother re-read all the epistles of paul and study carefully his style of writings, his personality and attitude and compare it to gospel of hebrew. Paul in his pen proves that HE IS A SELF-PROMOTER, he uses a lot personal pronoun, If you are indeed a true researcher and studied the works of Paul you will understand what i mean but if you are ONLY a closed minded believer then there is no way for you to see the difference, you will never grow, You will die as a blind believer, who is ignorant of the truth.
I am still waiting for your counter-arguments or refutation regarding my accusation that Paul is indeed a chameleon, hypocrite and disobedient. Stand on your ground jet and kindly create a sensible arguments
115-117 ADVENTIST777,
1. I have been observing and open-minded but never was I conditioned but furnished. 🙂
2. MR, you could not even refute my post #70. I presented biblical verses there. But you, you just copied what MARTIN LUTHER suggested. 🙂 SHAME ON SDAC! SHAME ON MRS WHITE, even allowing her members to COPY MARTIN LUTHER’S. 🙂
3. I have already created a very sensible argument. Let me paste it again for you.
The fact that YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND MATTHEW 6:5-6, OF WHOM YOU SAY YOU BELIEVE IN (though I doubt it), makes no wonder why YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND what somebody, WHOM YOU DO NOT BELEIVE IN, wrote.
🙂
FOR THE RECORD,
ADVENTIST777 has never aswered the queries of #47 MCGI member Locale of UK.
Why not ask your WILLIAM to help you answer the questions?
🙂
ANSWER ADVENTIST777! ANSWER!
To Adventist777,
YOU SAID: My stand from the very start is this: The law is not a cursed. ….. TONY MY STAND WILL NEVER WAVER: THE LAW IS NOT A CURSE!……..that’s why I am here, If i agree with your thought already then what is the point of our discussion? … I sometimes utilized a leading inquiry to manipulate you, to prove that in your face that your belief is indeed false, I used your belief against you, AS SIMPLE AS THAT tony.
If your true stand is that the law is not cursed, you shouldn’t have opposed your own belief. I pity you upon knowing that.
That is an act of desperation because the truth is, you cannot prove that the law is cursed according to your malicious accusation in misinterpreting Paul’s writings.
In your desperate attempt, and even if you do all sorts of reverse psychology and stupid manipulations, the fact remains that Paul never mentioned that the law is cursed. What he wrote is “curse of the law”.
Stop imposing statements which were never said and also stop adding to that which is written.
In short, stop LYING.
Proverbs 30:6 “Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”
———————————
YOU SAID: Then how come in the middle of the discussion I will believe in you that the law must be nullifed? I will become NON-SENSE right? NOn-sensical so to speak!
Wrong. You were already NON-SENSE from the beginning and not in the middle of the discussion. Non-sensical so to speak!
———————————-
YOU SAID: Tony for you the law is already obsolete, the law of laziness and lawlessness of Paul is now the way of salvation, Therefore the law must be nullified …. The law of Christ is about Obedience to the will of the FAther meaning you have to work for your own salvation.
Paul wrote:
Philippians 2:12 “Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”
Peter was right about your kind:
2 Peter 3:16 “As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.”
May God have mercy on your soul.
To tony:
——————————————————————-
Note: With regards to your so called contradiction in me, I already explained it clearly, so it’s up to the open-minded members of ADD to decide whether your accusations has bearing or none. STay with me tony, Let us remove slowly the contaminants inside your heart and thought sowed by the fanatical ministers of INC. Do not worry we will do everything together to free you from that bondage, for you to become a true member of your church : – church of God international.
————————————————————————-
My stand : The law is not a cursed.
Paul’ stand: The law is a cursed
from his pen: “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law” (Gal 3:13)
Tagalog: Tinubos tayo ng kristo sa SUMPA ng BATAS.
Ayon kay san pablo ang batas ba ay sumpa ? OO or hindi? KUng hindi bakit sinasabing tinubos tayo ng Kristo dto? So sa tingin nya tlaga na ang batas ay sumpa.
His proofs that it was indeed a cursed.
“The law was the law of sin and death (Romans 8:2)”
“The Law was the administration of condemnation” (II Cor. 3:9)
“The law is a yoke of bondage” ( Galatians 5:1)
“The law made nothing perfect” ( Hebrews 7:19)
“Those claiming to be justified by the law are fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4)
“The hope of righteousness was never by the law ( Galatians 5:5, 6).
Tony in accordance to Paul’s view , Is the Law a curse or not?
Tony, Do not just read & quote, think and analyze, Use your God’s given mind!!!!!
———————————————————————-
Topic: Paul’s Law of laziness & lawlessness (faith only)
YOu quoted: Philippians 2:12 “Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”
my response: In the above passage he is speaking about Obeying him and not obeying God’s precious commandment. ( key words: “in my presence ..in my absense”)
He said: “Work out your salvation with fear and trembling??? I thought he said:
let me quote from his pen:
“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW” (Rom 3:28).
“The we might be justified by Faith in Christ and not by THE WORKS of the law; FOR THE WORKS OF THE LAW NO FLESH SHALL BE JUSTIFIED ( Gal 2:16)
“For by Grace you have been saved thought faith, NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is the gift of God NOT OF WORKS , lets any should boast ( Eph. 2:9)
(Take note tony, Why would we boast? as Christ’ disciples do we need to boast by following the commandments….. to work for our salvation?? )
while in another occasion he saith:
God..”imputes righteousness WITHOUT WORKS” ( Rom. 4:6).
“The law led all in unbelief because it was not of FAITH ( Romans 11:32)
The law is not of faith (Gal. 3:12) , therefore the law could save no one ( Hebrew 11:6)
Tony 6 passages against 1, Which is which?
Tony, Your 10 years old smart nephew can understand that in the above passages paul is saying that salvation is through faith alone and we do not need to work, then how come he said: “Work your salvation with fear and TREMBLING?
Conclusion: His Faith is wavering, His mind is as unpredictable like the waves in the ocean.
THAT’S THE REASON WHY HE WAS CORRECTED BY THE TEACHER OF RIGHTEOUSNESS – JAMES -THE BROTHER OF THE LORD (faith without work is dead)
(Jet, added assignment for you!)
tony quoted: 2 Peter 3:16 “As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.”
my response: Brother tony, that’s not for me, If you will try to analyze, WE, are the defenders of the Brethen against the maltreatment and corruptions of Paul of tarsus. We are of Peter, of petrine branch who is faithful to the law that was magnified, stiffined, condensed and univesalized by our lord Jesus christ.
Do you have now the slightest Idea who were the ” others”, to whom Paul of tarsus compared his teachings? Who were those who accused him of lying?
Well, Peter advised us he saith: “Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. ( II Peter 3:17 RSV)
Tony, Lawless men? Is it not Paul who’s lawless, Is he not? because for him the law is sin and death, the law worketh wrath, the law is the ministration of condemnation etc. etc. or in short the law is a curse, and therefore it must be nullified. So He is the one who’s LAWLESS.
SEE?, the faulty covenant of Paul of Tarsus? … your apostle!
—————————————————————
To tony
(Covenant)
Tony quoted and wrote: Let us place the verses that you have provided:
“but this is the covenant that I willmake with the house of Israel after those days, says the lord: i will put MY LAWS in their mind and write IT on their heart and I will be their god and they shall be MY people “( Jeremiah 31:33)
Heb. 8:10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:”
my response: Yes, it is the same, but where in Jeremiah can we find that the new covenant has made first obsolete and growing old and ready to vanish away? (hebrew 8:13). Where tony?
————————————————————————
Tony wrote: Now, what law shall be written? Did God said “I will put THE SAME IDENTICAL LAWS into their mind and write them in their hearts”?That is not what is written. It is just your own conclusion! You just cannot keep on adding to what is written. You are truly a liar. The covenant which was given to Israel, written in 2 tablestones are the 10 commandments:
(Deuteronomy 4:13) “And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.”
my response: My conclusion? How come? I only extracted the essence of the message of prophet Jeremiah!
…….I will make a new covenant with the house of ISRAEL and JUDAH
…….not according to the covenant which they broke….
…….but this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days…….I will put MY LAWS in their mind and write IT on their heart and I will be their God and they shall be my people
What did he mean by the word “not according to the covenant which they broke? What covenant? is it not the Covenant written in Stone?
What did he mean by the word ” I will make a new covenant” Is it not the New Covenant that will be written in their hearts ( no more in the tablets of stone) but in their heart?
See tony? this is the covenant (new covenant) by God that He will make with the house of Israel after those days: HE WILL PUT HIS LAWS IN THEIR MIND. (”I will put MY LAWS in their mind and write IT on their heart “)
In short: the new covenant is not a new and different law tony, it is the same identical law, the only difference is that JUdah and Israel will be given a new heart (new covenant) for them to fully understand the Law.
Is it difficult to understand?
See Tony? You misunderstood the new covenant for Judah and Israel. The problem is your habit of literalization.
to be continued………
For tony:
On Literal Interpretation
Tony – literalist christian
Abdul- Arab muslim
Wong – chinese confucian
There was once three believers all died at the same time, when they each arrived at the gates to heaven, they marvelled on the beauty of such place, behind the gates our lord Jesus christ stood. Jesus observed their amazement. He introduced himself and invited them to go inside.
Abdul praise his God, & said: Truly i have spent my life in the service of GOD whom we call ALLAH, truly the prophet MOhammed was right about this place.
Wong stared on the astonishing beauty of that place. He said to Abdul: I never imagine of this sublime beauty, but i am hesitant to enter ‘coz I am not that familiar with him whom you called Jesus. Abdul smiled to Wong and said: “Do not fear brother wong “for I have heard of Jesus and know him to be a good man, Do not worry”!.
Jesus smiled as Abdul and Wong walked together and entered the gates of heaven going inside.
While tony was quite hesitant, Jesus asked him “Why are you so hesitant tony? why do you not wish to join with God in heaven as the others do?
Tony’ face grimmaced. ” I do not enter b’coz I know this is a trick and that you are SATAN. I have been a christian, a devoted one all my life and I KNOW WHO JESUS IS. Jesus cannot have long hair as you do, for our beloved apostle said
“Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?” (I Cor. 11:14)
So, I know you must be the DEVIL, and that behind you is just a mere illusion and in reality is HELL.
Tony did not enter, he wandered away.
to mr. adventist777
you are really blind. I wish to God that He opens your Heart and eyes.
To Adventist777
Man, you don’t know what you’re saying. I Pity you. I guess you need to listen more often to Bro. Eli. Try to find time to know our regular schedules in UNTV 37. You are also most welcome to attend to our Bible Studies, so you would attain real satisfaction and true understanding of the word of God.
emhj
To Adventist777,
I see that there is no more need to continue this discussion with you. You are already helplessly blinded by your unbelief in the gospel of Christ and even very contentious against it.
From the discussions above, it has been obviously clear that you are just answering according to your own interpretations, giving statements which cannot be read from the scriptures. You have also been found, repeatedly adding words to that which is written. This is proof that you are indeed a liar.
Proverbs 30:6 “Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”
Let be the gospel of Paul according to the revelation that he received from Christ, which you contest, also judge you on the day of judgment.
Romans 2:16 “In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”
In case you intend to prove your stand by means of a debate, Bro. Eli is always there to defend the Gospel of Christ.
We hope and pray that you may still be enlightened. May God have mercy on your soul.
God bless.
Tony,
note: I truly believe that you cannot speak in behalf of Paul, because you are not equip enough to defend him, but that’s ok I understand, I know you or any of your kind are not use to this kind of conversation.
It’s not about adding words, You are absolutely wrong about that, I only extracted the essence of the narration, It is Paul of tarsus who tampered the words of God not me. You quoted the ff:
Proverbs 30:6 “Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”
It is paul not me in his epistles who misused the writings of the prophets to his own accord. Proverb 30:6 is dedicated for him. Proverb 30:6 go hand and hand with Revelation 2:2.
I am not a liar brother! What is the point of lying if you know your ground of reality by heart and thought? the direct apostles & brethen were never accused of lying for your information.
If I am not liar then who?
They found him lying and it is indeed true. Tony, if I accuse you of being a liar, what will you do? Naturally, you will call a witness and to be effective there is only one right for you …….God in heaven!. for HE is beyond question, He cannot testify either, and therefore you are safe in calling him. and the very mention of his name may be persuasive to anybody. Let us proceed let me quote:
“The God and the Father of the Lord Jesus, He who is blessed forever, knows that I do not lie ” (II Cor. 11:31)
“In what I am writing to you, Before God, I do not lie “(Galatian 1:20)
“I am telling the truth, I am not lying” ( I Timothy 2:7)
” I am speaking the truth in Christ, I am not lying; my conscience bears witness in the HOLY SPIRIT that i have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart” (Romans 9:1-2)
Tony, It is very clear that he called God to witness for him in Galatian and Corinthians, He even called the Holy spirit to witness for him in Romans. So Paul swore by heaven ( called God and the holy spirit to witness for him) and vigorously denied that he was a liar. Is it clear? or is it not?
And by the way tony & take note repetitive denials of accusations suggest guilt. Do you agree? It is a strong evidence that the charges against him were true, remember , 4 times tony, as in 4x in the NT (to the corinthians, galatians, romans and to timothy) that he denied that he was a liar. Three times tony as in 3 x to the Corinthians, Galatian and to timothy the denials were issued about his claims of being an apostle.
Who accused him of lying? (most especially his claims of being an apostle of Christ) Who? Any guess tony?
consider the ff:
“I , Paul an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, to the saints who are also faithful in christ Jesus… ( Ephesian 1:1)
Paul to timothy: “This you know, that all those in Asia have turned away from me!” (II Timothy 1:15)
Tony in ASIA? the very place that Jesus told John to write, where his seven ekklesia were! And they were alive and obviously had been established for some time.
Jesus to the Ephesians: ” I know thy works and thy labor, and thy patience and how though canst not bear them which are evil and thou has tried them which say THEY ARE APOSTLES AND ARE NOT, AND HAS FOUND THEM LIARS “(Revelation 2:2)
Paul to the Ephesians: “I am an apostle of Jesus!
The Ephesians to Paul: “No, you’re not.”
Jesus to the Ephesians: “Well done!”
Anyway, Thank you for your time tony.
God bless too!
21 ADVENTIST777,
1. There is really no wonder why you DO NOT UNDERSTAND what PAUL (WHOM YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN) wrote, because you also DO NOT UNDERSTAND what JESUS CHRIST (WHO YOU SAY (?) YOU BELIEVE IN ???) said (Mat 6:5-6).
Arguing with you using Paul’s writings as basis (WHICH YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN), is no different from arguing with A MUSLIM who uses his KORAN, while I use the BIBLE.
2. But following your ill-logic:
“So, The new covenant is not a new and different law” #21
..when an SDA father gets his SDA son a NEW SHIRT from the store, he will tell his son, “Remember, this is NOT a new shirt. This is not a different shirt. This is still the SAME OLD SHIRT that I got for you years back. 🙂 How silly!
See? NEW COVENANT IS NOT NEW??? So, NEW SHIRT IS THE SAME OLD SHIRT? Foolish!
3. In Matthew 5:21-22, the conjunction, ‘BUT’ there introduces something in contrast or different from the former – if you studied elementary english. The same thing in 27-28.
4. You asked who’s he in Daniel 7:25.
The clues can be read from the previous verses. v24 This is the other king, which shall rise after the ten kings; v24 the ten kings, which are the ten horns out of the fourth kingdom; v23 the fourth kingdom, which is the fourth beast; v17 the fourth beast which is one of the four kings; v17 the four kings, which are the four great beasts.
And you are implying that this ‘other king’ is Paul. If this is true, notice that this OTHER KING that rose after the 10 KINGS SUBDUED 3 KINGS. Now my questions:
a. v24 did Paul ever subdued ‘3 other kings’ or ‘3 other horns’?
b. v24 If he really did, who were these ‘3 kings’? And who were these ’10 kings’ among Paul rose after?
c. v23 who this fourth beast, which is the fourth kingdom, v17 which is among the four kings, v24 from where the 10 kings/10 horns rose?
d. v3-7 And to make your WRONG INTERPRETATION complete, who were the 3 other beasts among the four great beasts, whom the fourth beast was diverse from?
Let us test your knowledge of the bible. If you cannot answer this concretely from the bible itself, then you are WRONGLY USING THE VERSE to discredit Paul.
ANSWER, MR ADVENTIST777!!!
21 ADVENTIST777,
1. He condensed the law: “Teacher, what sort of commandment is great in the law? So he said to himand all your mind, you will love the lord your God in all your heart and in all your life.
This is the great and first commandment, the second is like it, You will love your neighbor as yourself. In these two commanments hang all the law and the prophets. (matthew 26:36-39)
These words cannot be found in the chapter you gave but in 22.
2. You said, “Remember again the prophecy of Prophet Isaiah “the lord is well pleased for his righteousness’ sake; HE WILL MAGNIFY THE LAW AND MAKE IT HONORABLE” (Isaiah 42:21).
“Think not that I have come to abollish the LAW and the PROPHETS; I HAVE COME NOT TOABOLISH THEM BUT TO FULFILL THEM (Isaiah 42:21).”
Which is really which? It seems that you are not very careful with biblical verses. HMMM! But anyways let us see about this second verse you gave.
Which things in the law, did Jesus Christ to FULFILL? The sabbath?
Matthew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
All of them? Or what?
Hebrews 10:7 ¶Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Bro. Eli,
Thank you for unselfishly sharing your knowledge in the Bible. Please continue to write so that we may learn more about God and find our way to eternal life!
More Power and God Bless…
May God continuously bless bro. eli for his work in the name of Jesus Christ!
To God be the Glory!
To jet: (Daniel’s Prophecy chapter 7)
Narration: The clues can be read from the previous verses. v24 This is the other king, which shall rise after
the ten kings; v24 the ten kings, which are the ten horns out of the fourth kingdom; v23 the fourth
kingdom, which is the fourth beast; v17 the fourth beast which is one of the four kings; v17 the four
kings, which are the four great beasts.
1. Jet wrote: And you are implying that this ‘other king’ is Paul. If this is true, notice that this OTHER KING
that rose after the 10 KINGS SUBDUED 3 KINGS. Now my questions:
my response: Paul of tarsus is the Father, the mastermind or the leader of this 4th kingdom- Roman Empire
Official religion: Pauline Christianity (mother church Catholicism and her son (factions and denomination including ADD & INC who hate
one another). It started (can be traced back) in Antioch Syria where the disciples of paul were first called Christian ( Acts 9:25; 13:26) and proclaimed by Constantine as the Roman state
religion.
Paul was the only one who labelled himself as a “Father” to his congregations (NOT PETER). Peter never went to Rome.
Therefore It is Paul who wanted to be called a “father” by his disciples was the first POPE, those papal
successors just like Paul as what I’ve said taken the name of “pope-papa” which is the latin word for
“Father”.
“For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many Fathers. FOR I
BECOME YOUR FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel (I Corinthians 4:15).I appeal to you for
my child, Onesimus, whose ‘FATHER I have become in my imprisonment (Philemon 10).
Jesus: Paul!, I said: “Call no man your father on earth for you have one Father who is in
heaven” (Matthew 23:9)
—————————————————————–
2. Jet wrote: a. v24 did Paul ever subdued ‘3 other kings’ or ‘3 other horns’?
my response: The roman regime (Ceasar) under the spell of Paul of tarsus subdued the other 3 regime.
_——————————————————————————————-
3. Jet wrote: b. v24 If he really did, who were these ‘3 kings’? And who were these ‘10 kings’ among Paul
rose after?
my response: the three kingdom (Babylonian, Medo-persian, greek ) three kings ( Nebuchadnezzar,Medes then Cyrus
& Alexander)
————————————————————————————–
4. Jet wrote: c. v23 who this fourth beast, which is the fourth kingdom, v17 which is among the four kings, v24
from where the 10 kings/10 horns rose?
my response: The fourth kingdom is Roman Empire( ceasar) under the influence of the Anti-christ Paul of Tarsus
the 10 kings or 10 horns are the papal dynasty (christendom) of the mother church of Paul of tarsus.
—————————————————————————————————
5. Jet wrote: d. v3-7 And to make your WRONG INTERPRETATION complete, who were the 3 other beasts among the
four great beasts, whom the fourth beast was diverse from?
my response: the Lion, the bear and Leopard or look answer # 3. 4th (Great beast): the 10 horned beast
6. Jet wrote: Let us test your knowledge of the bible. If you cannot answer this concretely from the bible itself,
then you are WRONGLY USING THE VERSE to discredit Paul.
my response: I have given you the summary of the answers of all your queries. I know Paul of tarsus by heart than
any of you. It is my time now to request from you to please answer those statements (your assignments jet!) or accusation against your
apostle Saul- the Anti-christ
7. Jet wrote: ANSWER, MR ADVENTIST777!!!
my response: Jet, I am waiting for your sensible counter-arguments in response to my sensible acussation to your beloved
father.
by: ADVENTIST777 using an ID of an ADD from UK (hirap eh di maka lusot masyadong unfair ang moderator ng forum na ito, di na ako maka pag post sympre pra lumabas na di ako makasagot pero alam ng Dios lahat yan at bahala na ang dios kay EFS)
End
Everyone,
Look who’s the DECEIVER now!
At the start:
129 MCGI member Locale of UK
Bro. Eli,
Thank you for unselfishly sharing your knowledge in the Bible. Please continue to write so that we may learn more about God and find our way to eternal life!
More Power and God Bless…
May God continuously bless bro. eli for his work in the name of Jesus Christ!
To God be the Glory!
In the end:
by: ADVENTIST777 using an ID of an ADD from UK (hirap eh di maka lusot masyadong unfair ang moderator ng forum na ito, di na ako maka pag post sympre pra lumabas na di ako makasagot pero alam ng Dios lahat yan at bahala na ang dios kay EFS)
Grabe na ‘to! My answers will be IMMEDIATELY RIGHT AFTER this.
129 ADVENTIST777,
1. According to you:
OTHER KING = PAUL OF TARSUS
because – is the Father; the mastermind or the leader of this 4th kingdom – Roman Empire; labelled himself as a ”Father”; wanted to be called a ” father”.
This is actually very funny because I have researched the history of the ‘Roman Empire’, and I never found Paul of Tarsus to be one of its MASTERMIND, LEADER, or EMPEROR. 🙂
You used 1 cor 4:15 and Phil 1:10. That must be from ESV or ISV or what have you. But if we look it up in greek, the word used there is:
G1080
γεννάω
gennaō
ghen-nah’-o
From a variation of G1085; to procreate (properly of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively to regenerate: – bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.
See the difference?
Instead, according to him:
Hebrews 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Philippians 4:20 ¶Now unto God and our Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Colossians 1:3 ¶We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
Ephesians 1:3 ¶Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
2 Corinthians 1:3 ¶Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
129 ADVENTSIT777,
2. You said, “The roman regime (Ceasar) under the spell of Paul of tarsus subdued the other 3 regime.”
I thought, according to you:
OTHER KING = PAUL OF TARSUS
PAUL OF TARSUS = SUBDUED 3 KINGS (HORNS)
But now look at your statement:
ROMAN REGIME (CEASAR) UNDER THE SPELL OF PAUL OF TARSUS = SUBDUED OTHER 3 REGIMES
Hahaha! This is actually very funny! 🙂 You see, a fish is really caught by its mouth. And as I have said, you and your cohorts are small ones.
Notice this: ROMAN REGIME (CEASAR)
It just proves that Paul of Tarsus was really not the mastermind, the leader – as you have accused him of – nor the emperor of the roman empire – BUT CEASAR!
Therefore, after analyzing your MALICIOUS ACCUSATIONS, it is Ceasar who subdued 3 other kings, NOT PAUL. You just drag the latter into it.
You just added ‘under the spell of Paul of Tarsus’.
If you insist that Paul is the mastermind, the leader, of the roman empire, are you now saying that PAUL IS HIGHER IN AUTHORITY THAN CEASAR? If yes, you must be really out of your mind!
a. If Paul is really the mastermind, he shouldn’t have written to the brethrens in his epistle to the Romans the following:
Romans 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
b. If the Roman regime (Caesar) was under Paul’s spell as you alleged, he should not have written this thing.
Romans 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
c. If your allegations of Paul are true, he should not have suffered from stripes above measure and in prisons more frequent.
2 Corinthians 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
You are just inventing your own stories. This one from Paul should be for you:
Romans 12:16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
…be not wise in your own conceits.
129 ADVENTIST777,
3. You said, “my response: the three kingdom (Babylonian, Medo-persian, greek ) three kings ( Nebuchadnezzar,Medes then Cyrus
& Alexander)”
Was it PAUL OF TARSUS who subdued them or was it CEASAR?
Let me remind you of what you said:
“The roman regime (Ceasar) under the spell of Paul of tarsus subdued the other 3 regime.”
Your story is actually very funny. If it is Paul who subdued them, Paul must be HIGHER THAN CEASAR for him to be the mastermind, the leader of the Roman regime, right? WRONG! Because this is just your invention! If Ceasar is alive, I wonder what would he have done to you after he hears that. 🙂
And mind you, are these three kingdoms, THE ONLY KINGDOMS whom the ROMAN REGIME subdued? I suggest that you research on the history of the roman empire to see ALL KINGDOMS it conquered.
129 ADVENTIST777,
4. You said, “The fourth kingdom is Roman Empire( ceasar) under the influence of the Anti-christ Paul of Tarsus
the 10 kings or 10 horns are the papal dynasty (christendom) of the mother church of Paul of tarsus.”
This tickles me, really. You see, the bible was very exact to number the kings as 10 (ten). And you concluded that these 10 kings are the papal dynasty (christendom).
My question is, were there really 10 PAPAL DYNASTIES? If there were, who or what were they?
Remember, you said in #1, “Therefore It is Paul who wanted to be called a “father” by his disciples was the first POPE, those papal successors just like Paul as what I’ve said taken the name of “pope-papa” which is the latin word for “Father”.
I thought PAUL was the first POPE, like you said. But here in your story, these papal dynasty are the 10 horns/kings where Paul, the other king, rise after. Compose yourself.
If Paul according to you is the FIRST POPE, these papal dynasties should have rise after him.
But according to the prophecy in Daniel 7:24, the other king, rise after the 10 kings/horns. BALIKTAD! 🙂
Ipit na ba? It is really hard to make-up stories, you know.
129 ADVENTIST777,
5. You said, “the Lion, the bear and Leopard or look answer # 3. 4th (Great beast): the 10 horned beast”
Just to examine your statement in #3, you said, “the three kingdom (Babylonian, Medo-persian, greek ) three kings ( Nebuchadnezzar,Medes then Cyrus & Alexander)”
Now, I wonder, can you tell me who the lion, the bear, and leopard is among nebu, medes then cyrus & alex? 🙂 When you have told me who, can you tell me WHY? HEHEHE!
And mind you, these 3 other beasts that I am asking in this instance, is not/different from the 3 other kings which was subdued by that other king, from the 10 horns/kings, from the fourth beast.
Halatang Imbento talaga ito!
129 ADVENTIST777,
6. You said, “I have given you the summary of the answers of all your queries. I know Paul of tarsus by heart than
any of you. It is my time now to request from you to please answer those statements (your assignments jet!) or accusation against your apostle Saul- the Anti-christ”
Unfortunately, your story does not coincide with the prophecy in the bible. You barely made up a convincing story for HOLLYWOOD producers to base a movie from. Not even Viva Films will bet on that.
If you only know him by heart, you should have understood what he wrote.
Well, again, let me say this:
The fact that you DO NOT UNDERSTAND what the LORD JESUS CHRIST (whom you believe – though I doubt it) said, makes no wonder why you DO NOT UNDERSTAND what the apostle Paul (whom you do not believe) wrote.
Let me show you from the bible about the antichrist.
1. 1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
Did Paul ever denied the Father and the Son? No! Instead he said:
1 Corinthians 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 1:3 ¶Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;
2. 1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Did Paul confess NOT that Jesus is come in the flesh? No! Instead he said:
Romans 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
See?
129 ADVENTIST777,
7. You said, “Jet, I am waiting for your sensible counter-arguments in response to my sensible acussation to your beloved
father.”
Unfortunately, these are baseless accusations of yours. Not even world history or the history of the roman empire conincides with these.
Ang mind you, what Paul said again:
Hebrews 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
I hope all members of Seventh Day Adventist who happen to stumble upon this eye opener would read this blog with open hearts… Let us not make our pride hinder us from accepting the truth. Bro. Eli defended the topic completely from the Bible.
To God Be The Glory again…
I watched the debate between you and Mitch. I wasn’t convinced I actually know a lot of the answers to the questions you asked Mitch. One example is this you use Hebrews 8 a lot. I think you are misinterpreting the word “covenant”(which actually is missing many times if you use the KJV). A covenant is not a law nessecarily it is a contract(which can involve clauses which can be seen as laws). There are usually two parties in a contract in this case the Jews and God(‘s Word). If a contract is made worthless according to verse 13. This is the question… which party was made null and void… the Jews or God? Is it possible that when the bible talks about a covenant being decayed that it is claiming the Jews’ half was decayed and God’s half(The commandments) is still perfect seeing that everything God says is perfect. We are forced then to believe that the ten+ commandments are perfect in their original form and the only thing decayed are the Jews(as Jews…they can convert to christianity if they want) It is impossible for God’s word to be decayed so by default Mr. Soriano you have to say the problem is with the people not the law. So when in another verse the bible says the law is ended or anything the simular it is refering to the contract itself. For anyone of Gods laws to pass away the laws of gravity or that keep heaven and earth together would have to pass away. Matthew 5:18
Also you almost denied the divinity of Christ claiming that he literally sinned(“even though because he is God it didn’t count as sin”) This is another problem dealing with the fact that you are misinterperating the word “sabbath” which simply means “rest”. John 5:18 is a very interesting verse, I was surprised that anti-sabbath-keepers used this verse so much I was shoked when I heard it used this way. When you see the word sabbath in the bible you have to remember there are four possible interpertations. The first would be
1).The sabbath commandment.
2). Ceremonial Sabbaths and Sacrificial Sabbaths. which were nailed to the cross according to colossians 2:14. 3). The Jewish sabbath traditions Matthew 15:3. Luke 6:2,9
4). Or simply “rest” Exodus 5:5.
You interperated the word incorrectly denying Christ’s divinity as a sinless man/perfect God. It is true that God is always working but God the man followed the commandments for a reason. To prove they could be kept and to inspire us. You asked Mitch for a verse here is one. Hebrew 4:15 This specifically proves that God rendered himself (human) so that he could be (touched) and tempted, even though the bible says God cannot be tempted to do evil. This means God was tempted to (kill/anger, adultery/lust,dishonouring his father/breaking the Sabbath commandment) BUT SINNED NOT!!!! The verse, John 5:18, simply states that God/Jesus broke the Jewish traditions by healing the sick, picking and eating corn and possibly walking a lot on Sabbath. Please show me the verse which claims that Christ broke the sabbath commandment.
To N Smith
Why don’t you challenge bro eli for a debate if you really a man OF God.
I am kinda shy, that is why I won’t challenge him to a debate. But seriously though I don’t really think there is anything to debate the facts are pretty obvious. If you truly study the bible like most Adventists do and try to understand that God does not speak english or even hebrew per se then you will come to the realization that even if you read a bible verse word for word, verses like John 5:18 will still compound you only with praying and fasting can one truly understand what is in The Holy Bible.
To gdg
(quote transliterated)
“Why don’t you turn this rock into bread… if you really [are] a man OF God[?]”
answer=Cause I have bread in the fridge. lol!!!
But seriously…someone please respond to what I said.
compound=confound 🙂
My niece is curious and told me that maybe adventist 777 is wiser than 666 one degree higher. I was about to congratulate you adventist 777 for the apology you posted after the early rounds of the discussions but as I go along, I found out that you find glory in interpreting the verses in the manner that is of personal advantage to you, veering away from the simple message contained in them. You projected a status of big understanding of the bible yet you supplant the words with your own invented words. You refuse to subscribe to the words NEW COVENANT and plainly claimed that JESUS CHRIST merely magnified, condensed or stiffened the OLD COVENANT. Whatever words you use, it is all the same, simply it is a NEW COVENANT written in the hearts of men and not the OLD COVENANT written in the stone. No matter how you juggle words, trying to give the impression that you are a ‘learned’ man, the TRUTH as explained by Bro Eli will prevail. Your lengthy discussions only brought to the open your disbelief and utter deslike for the Apostle Paul. While you pretend to be a ‘born again’ adventist, your defensive reasoning and reverence to your founder ellen white crops up all the time. You talk on genders and many things as if, only you, have the final authority, only to evade the issue when cornered or can not refute nor answer the questions asked of you. One good thing that I noticed though is your persistence and the patience to devote more time in this blog. I pray that rebuttals and corrections will not deter you from visiting Bro Eli’s blog. I hope I got you correctly when you said that you are actually outside the adventist now, thats good. Reading and listening to Bro Eli might led you to the right track and the right church, the CHURCH OF GOD. GOD IS KIND AND MERCIFUL, GLORY TO HIM.
to N.Smith,
if you are shy for a debate, why dont you call all of your elders and have them on line on this blog or to B.eli’s Talkshow to face him on a discussion?
Hey? why didn’t my post go through? Good thing I saved it.
I am not really interested in debates and battles of wit. I just don’t see the purpose of such things. I think it is sad that some people don’t understand that all the commandments are there because God loves us. I know they are hard to follow but it is hard for me to believe that God doesn’t want us to try our best to follow his words. If God abolished his ten commandments solely because the Jews wouldn’t follow them isn’t he proving the Jews RIGHT. I think Jesus wanted us to follow the commandments, I think these laws should be the constitution of all Christianity. If we don’t have a list of specific things we should or shouldn’t do then as Christians we have no constitution no proof. Vain Christians who think the ten commandments are invalid should understand, God loves them and this was so from the beginning, he would NEVER give us laws unless in his wisdom he felt that they were good for us. I have a message for Eliseo I just remembered that in his debate with Mitch he claimed that the ten commandment were not a “base constitution” because the ten commandments didn’t mention baptism, this is incorrect. “The wages of sin is death” “sin is the transgresson of the law” “Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism unto death” Baptism is a symbolic punishment for breaking the Ten Commandments. Therefore baptism is in fact part of the Ten Commandments.
I’ve watched the debate between Bro. Eli Soriano vs Bro. Mitch Vickers here in the United States…. I was happy for I learned many things on that debate.
Bro. Soriano is not consistent on his statements… He said on the cross examination in the 1st stand that the “laws were imprinted on the hearts of men and not written’ quoting Ecc.7:29. However, on the third stand, he said that the laws “were already written oin the hearts of men.”
Mr. Vickers asked him if committing adultery is lawful or not in the Christian era. Mr Soriano answered that it is “not lawful for a modern Christian to commit adultery.” Forbidding of Commiting adultery is a commandment in the 10 commandments. Mr. Soriano must opposed that but he agreed, forgetting that he must disagree base on what he signed on the topic.
When Mr. Soriano was asked how could Jesus broke the Sabbath because he is the Lord of the Sabbath, he did nit answer instead he challenge Mr. Vickers.
During the last part of the 2nd stand, Mr. Vickers asked Bro. Soriano if what law did Jesus break when he was on earth, he answered that “Jesus did not break any law” howecver on his stand, he insisted that Jesus broke the Sabbath as his interpretation of John 5:18.
sda_ssd
N.Smith,
You are only saying what you “think”! You own account and not from the Holy Scriptures.
Why? Because you have no supporting verses to prove what you think.
I won’t give my trust to N. Smith who has but a breath in his nostrils.
Isaiah 2 (New International Version)
22 Stop trusting in man,
who has but a breath in his nostrils.
Of what account is he?
Thank you pastor for your brave attitude in standing for what is right (being what the Bible says). It is not easy to go it alone. However, remember those seeking the real truth are never alone.
God bless you,
Charlene Godbee
“I KNOW Jesus wanted us to follow the commandments. I KNOW these laws should be the constitution of all Christianity.”
The current state of Christianity is very sad. I can’t believe you don’t believe the Bible supports my arguments. Do you believe the Bible supports Eli’s claim that Jesus broke the forth commandment. I hope you complain to him as well.
Many Sunday worshipers in their search to find biblical proof for their tradition have the audacity to try to prove their argument by literally denying the divinity of Christ. They like to claim that Jesus broke the fourth commandment, quoting John 5:18. This is a sad reckless disregard for Christian doctrine, to claimed that Jesus purposely broke the commandments to teach us not to keep it. This is clearly false.
“For we don’t have a high priest who can’t be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.” (Hebrews 4:15)
“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10) Jesus is the same as the Father. Jesus wants us to keep his commandments.
John 5:18 is simply claiming that Jesus broke the Jewish law pertaining to the sabbath and how it should be kept, not God’s law pertaining to the sabbath and how it should be kept. (In my humble opinion!)
I just put together a new web site established to share and teach the methods of Bible studies used by the early Adventists. This site features Ellen White and writings from early Adventists and will include advanced studies showing prophesies that predicated a change in the Sabbath and signs of a last day prophet.
I look forward to your comments and any links you may suggest that I could add to the site.
I don’t belong to any denomination but I find some logic in N. Smith’s presentation. As of now I am still searching for the truth having “left” recently the Catholic Church in the meantime to search for the truth.
Recently I was talking with a coworker and he gave me another interesting argument. He tried to convince me that Matthew 28:1 could be used to prove that the Sabbath had been changed to sunday. Something having to do with the fact that the word ‘week’ in the New Testament is actually ‘sabbaton.’ So the verse actually states, “At the end of the Sabbath as it dawned toward the first of the sabbath”. This verse can be stretched by those people with the same audacity that I stated before. My coworker claimed that the word sabbaton should never be translated as week. But this causes a problem with Luke 18:12. Where a guy states that he fasts twice a week. My coworker kept on trying to convince me that you could fast twice in one day. Later this matter was resolved for me, I learned about an ancient Christian writing called the Didache. The Didache 8:1 proves that the early Christians were fasting twice in one week not twice in one day which means the word sabbaton can in fact be translated as ‘week.’ So if you come across a Sunday worshiper using the Matthew 28:1 argument you now have a response. For those interested in Bible truth.
Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Admin,pls post the latest comments especially the challenge of Jetur Bkk,a SDA apologists who frequently rebuts articles of BroELi about SDA faulty covenant.I hope BroELi will still have time despite his busy schedule to read Jetur linked articles and answer them on next articles.
Thanks po!