The Truth About Noah and the ‘Worldwide Flood’
May 30, 2007 by Bro. Eli
Indeed, ignorance of the Bible will lead somebody to ‘wrestle’ the word of God!
(2 Peter 3:16) “As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.”
Note that the unlearned are the ones that ‘wrest’ or twist the word of God. In our world today, in spite of the advancement in knowledge and technology, there are some sectors of human society that live in their own chosen world understanding only their own adapted language. These are the imaginary people that believe that God is imaginary. Their brains are neither flexible nor elastic. A rubber band can be elastic to accommodate a bundle of money not normally intended for it to bind. So long as it has not reached the point of its perfect elasticity, you can always rely that a rubber band is accommodating. But what is frustrating is that there are people lesser in degree of elasticity than a rubber band without brains! They have read in the Bible the word ‘earth’ and because of their ignorance, they readily presumed that it pertains to the whole planet earth; and because of their ‘non-elastic mind’, they have this to say:
“THERE WAS NEVER A WORLDWIDE FLOOD THAT COVERED MOUNT EVEREST LIKE THE BIBLE SAYS”
Nowhere in the Bible can you find any verse that speaks of a ‘worldwide flood’. What is in the Bible are the following informations:
(Genesis 7:10-12) “And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth. In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.”
(Genesis 7:17-20) “And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bore up the ark, and it was lifted up above the earth. And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.”
Nowhere in these verses mentioned can you find a hint of a ‘worldwide flood’. The flood was ‘upon the earth’. All throughout theses verses the word earth was used. The earth or ‘erets’ in Hebrew, means:
‘erets
eh’-rets
From an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land): - X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X nations, way, + wilderness, world. (Dictionaries of Hebrew and Greek Words taken from Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance by James Strong, S.T.D., LL.D., 1890.)
The word ‘erets’ may mean ‘partitively, a land, a country, a field, a ground, etc. Notice Genesis 1:10, which says;
“And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.”
The dry land that God caused to appear on the surface of the waters which He called “seas”, He called earth — ‘erets’! Note that the ‘earth’ here does not include the seas.
The flood that happened in the time of Noah flooded the ‘erets’ and not the seas… Of course, YOU DO NOT FLOOD THE SEAS! So, this is not a worldwide flood as these imaginary idiots claim. I hope they will not be offended because they are imaginary.
The Bible has a unique language. It was written to be read, first by the people of the then known world. In the time of the apostle Paul, he said:
(Colossians 1:23) “If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister…”
Here, he used the past tense of the word ‘kerusso’. Paul is confident when he wrote to the Colossians that he was able to preach the Gospel to ‘every’ creature which is under heaven. At about the same time that Paul was preaching the gospel to the known world (the world of the Roman Empire), the famous Rice Terraces in Banaue, Mountain Province in the Philippines is being built by the Ifugaos, one of the aborigines of the Filipinos.
The Banaue Rice Terraces are 2000-year old terraces that were carved into the mountains of Ifugao in the Philippines by ancestors of the Batad indigenous people. It is commonly thought that the terraces were built with minimal equipment, largely by hand. The terraces are located approximately 1500 meters (5000 feet) above sea level and cover 10,360 square kilometers (about 4000 square miles) of mountainside. They are fed by an ancient irrigation system from the rainforests above the terraces.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banaue_Rice_Terraces)
But Paul did not reach the Philippines, or the Americas, so, having flexibility in mind in understanding the language of the Bible we can discern that what the apostle Paul means when he said he “preached the gospel to every creature under heaven”, is to the people only of the known world then. Incidentally, the Philippines was discovered only in the sixteenth century by the Europeans led by Ferdinand Magellan.
When the Bible classified the bats (Leviticus 11:13,19) as belonging to the ‘oph’ (Hebrew), it means that it is classified with those “as covering with wings” or those “that flieth”.
ôph
From H5774; a bird (as covered with feathers, or rather as covering with wings), often collective: - bird, that flieth, flying, fowl (Dictionaries of Hebrew and Greek Words taken from Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance by James Strong, S.T.D., LL.D., 1890.)
Detractors of the Bible say that it is not scientific because science classifies bats as belonging to the mammalian group. They rely very much on science, and for them science is the final authority of what they believe. This author is not against science, but human science is not as exact as ‘divine science’ in the Scriptures.
(Daniel 1:4) “Children in whom was no blemish, but well favored, and skillful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king’s palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans.”
Human science has classified plants and animals only on the seventeenth and eighteenth century.
At any one time in history, there are millions of different kinds of plants and animals in the world. In 1753, a scientist in Sweden named Carolus Linnaeus thought of an orderly system for classifying plants and animals. He grouped all organisms according to a two-part name (binomial). The first part of the name is the “generic” grouping or genus. The second part is the “specific” grouping or species. Scientists today still use this basic idea of his system, but modern classifications systems are much more complicated having many levels of hierarchical organization. For example, taxonomic systems group organisms according to structure and physiological connections between organisms.(http://www.fi.edu/tfi/units/life/classify/classify.html)
Before these times, the acceptable classifications for bats, because they fly, is that they belong to the ‘ophs’ or the fowls, or the birds. The book of Leviticus was written almost 2500 years before classifications in human science came. Note that the classification introduced by Linnaeus employs two basic ideas: the ‘generic’ and the ‘specific’. The classification used in the Bible is exactly generic, and therefore, in a way, scientific! After all, the word mammal is not in the Bible! The word mammalia was coined by Linnaeus only in 1758!
Mammalia (1773), coined 1758 by Linnaeus for the class of mammals, from neut. pl. of L.L. mammalis “of the breast,” from L. mamma “breast,” perhaps cognate with mamma.
(http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=mammal&searchmode=none)
The book of Leviticus that records the existence of bats was written by Moses in around 1512 BC, more than three thousand years before Linnaeus was born!
When the apostles were commissioned by the Lord Jesus Christ to make disciples and ‘teach all nations’, the Lord Jesus Christ knows, and the apostles understood it, that He speaks only of all nations of the ‘known world’. It is impossible for the apostles to physically reach the Americas or my country, the Philippines. The apostles do not have the slightest idea that there are countries existing that time, like the Philippines and the Americas! The phrase “all nations” does not necessarily include all nations of the world or the whole earth.
When the Bible mentioned that the whole ‘erets’ was flooded, it does not necessarily mean that the whole world, including the seas, were flooded! Remember that the word ‘erets’ was used in the Bible, not only to mean the planet earth, but also the dry land.
Most probably, Noah lived not far from where Adam and Eve lived. He is about the tenth generation from Adam. Adam and Eve lived not far from Eden after being expelled from the garden of Eden. Eden is within Turkey. So, the probability is that the flood happened within Turkey. The highest mountain ranges in Turkey are the mountains of Ararat. It was where the ark rested.
(Genesis 8:4) “And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.”
The mountains of Ararat are at the extreme eastern part of Turkey. The ark of Noah did not go too far from ground where it floated because it was not meant to travel, but to float.
The idea of a worldwide flood did not come from the Bible, but from people who do not understand its language!
Liked this story? Click on the ‘DIGG’ button
Perverts always a pervert that pervert the Grace of GOD in CHRIST into a twisting devilish lies!
Perverts, Your not Biblical!
Scripture: “To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.”
Titus 1:15
What you perverts,with imaginary thinking, have does not fit the scriptures!
Unlearn and Relearn!
This article is superb. I am overwhelmed!
RE: Flood.
What the skeptic was referring to was the ABSENCE of scientific/geological evidence of a great flood on rocks, mountains, etc, or what you refer to as “ERET”.
using the “Sea is already wet therefore cannot be flooded so therefore no Global flood” defense is asinine and idiotic. did the sea levels remain the same during the flood as you are implying when you say that only the “earth” or land was flooded.
Once again, i have another reason to be proud for being a Filipino. The only sensible preacher in our time is my countryman and iam proud to declare that to everybody. after all, you can see the proof. more power Bro. Eli.
Water Can Move Mountains (Rapidly)
Four million people per year visit the Grand Canyon and ponder at the incredible forces which cut this chasm out of the earth. Did the small river at the bottom carve through the many layers of sediment over eons of time or did a catastrophic event carve the canyon more rapidly? These are the competing explanations for the origin of the Grand Canyon. But how could a flood have accomplished so much? As the following examples show, moving water has enormous erosion capabilities.
In the spring of 1983 the spillway tunnel of the Glen Canyon Dam had to be operated to allow drainage of water from Lake Powell. When one of the spillways was fully opened the flow pattern changed and blocks of rock were seen hurtling out of the spillway exit. The water became red with dissolved sandstone and there were noticeable earth tremors. The spillway was immediately closed for inspection. The survey team discovered incredible erosion damage to the spillway tunnel cause by cavitation of the flowing water. In a matter of minutes, flowing water had penetrated the three foot thick, steel reinforced, walls and ripped holes into the surrounding bedrock. A 150 foot diameter hole had been cut into the rock requiring 63,000 cubic feet of concrete to repair the damage.
In the scab lands of eastern Washington is an even more dramatic example of the incredible erosion force of rapidly flowing water. An ancient lake was blocked at the end of the ice age by an ice dam in northern Idaho. When the water breached the dam it ripped through Montana, Idaho, and Washington leaving 16,000 square miles of scarred terrain and deeply cut valleys. At one location the flood cut a 50 mile long trench 6 miles wide and 900 feet deep through solid rock! An estimated 10 cubic miles of Columbia Plateau basalt was eroded in a matter of hours by this single event. The process by which moving water can cause such extensive damage is illustrated above.
Could the Grand Canyon have been carved out by a similar catastrophic events and processes? Many qualified geologist are coming to believe this is exactly what has happened. These geologists have proposed that a large area of the Southwestern United States was covered by water which apparently broke through a natural dam and very rapidly eroded much of the Grand Canyon to its current depth. The water for this massive erosion came from gigantic lakes left on the plateau when the worldwide flood receded.
There are many other examples of moving water accomplishing massive geological changes. Yet all of these local examples pale in comparison with the effect a worldwide flood would have in regional geological features. If there were a worldwide flood, the illustrated destructive forces would have been in operation during and subsequent to this event. The result would be the rapid accumulation of very thick sedimentary deposits over massive regions. During such an event, valleys would be filled with sediment thousands of feet thick.
Neither the inability of moving water to produce the massive geological features nor the lack of evidence for a worldwide flood prevents geologists from accepting the Biblical flood account as reality. Could it be a philosophical version to accepting that which is supernatural in its origin? Would a geologist who accepted a worldwide flood for the formation of our planet’s geologist features be welcomed into the present science community? Or would this “politically incorrect” interpretation cause him to be ostracized? To accept a worldwide flood as a factual event would profoundly affect other areas of science, including biology, paleontology, and anthropology. Would such an interpretation be allowed by the scientific community?
“My secret identity” == curious with everything
Probably one of the biggest arguments about the flood is: Where did all the water come from? Actually, it came from three sources.
1) Water in the form of rain.
2) The water just under the earth’s crust.
3) From God.
And then there is the question: Where did all the water go? You can read about this here. Deep waters Now of course because that link leads to a scientific site, they are going to put their scientific spin on where that water came from. And how long it’s been there (like they could really test for that, this is a of course, just a guess on their part).
Because the water is down there, and science does not believe in the global flood, they will say that to bring up that water it would boil the earth because there would be a lot of lava to come up with it. They would be right. The extreme pressures caused by the flood raised the boiling point of the water to go into this mineral. You see, science thinks that the water came up from there. then went back down, when actually, God created more water for the flood.
Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
The key phrase in figuring out where the water came from for the flood is: windows of heaven. Now most people, just like myself, just think of this as a storm with clouds that opened and allowed rain to fall. Not so. This was the very first time rain, or any water, had fallen from the sky. This is one of the reasons why Noah was made fun of for building the Ark. But why did the water have to come through the way of windows of heaven? After doing a word search on this phrase, I found that what comes through the windows of heaven, comes directly from God. And since there are no windows in our sky, this most be a reference to what separates the physical world from the spiritual.
Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Being that blessings come straight from God, the windows of heaven phrase can only mean that this is some type of portal in which things from God come through. But was windows of heaven phrase just a replacement word for the word storm? No. Storm is mentioned 19 times in the word of God. And the first time is:
Job 21:18 They are as stubble before the wind, and as chaff that the storm carrieth away.
So from this we can conclude that the first water that fell on the earth did not fall as it comes from a storm, like how it works today. But is there a verse that shows how this could be done?
Isaiah 28:2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.
This verse, in Isaiah, shows that God has the ability to cast water down by His hand. This maybe also why windows of heaven phrase is used. For God’s hand had to come through the windows of heaven portal (an opening access between our world and heaven) for God’s hand to cast down water for the flood. But for God to be able to do this, there would have to be a connection between God and water.
Jer 17:13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.
Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Jer 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.
Ms. Terry == also curious with everything
Jer 17:13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.
Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Jer 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.
So in these verses we see that water can actually flow from God. So what we have so far is: The windows of heaven opening, and water flowing from God, through this portal, that separates our world from heaven, to flood the earth. But science will say: What about physics? Would not that much water, falling in such a short period of time, generate enough heat to almost cook the earth? Of course it would. But, with the windows of heaven and God becoming personally involved in the flooding of the earth, what law of physics would apply to God? And since no known scientific law would apply to God, God is able to do what is needed. This is why God was personally involved in creation and the flood. And also why science cannot explain creation or the flood and can only try to disprove it.
Ms. Terry == also curious with everything
The promise of God. After the earth had been flooded, and Noah was off the Ark. God made a promise:
Ge 9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
Ge 9:14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
Ge 9:15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
Ge 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
Ge 9:17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.
This promise is reconfirmed by this finding: Deep waters. This water cannot be brought up because to do so would broil the earth. I believe this was done so that when we found this water, it would be a testament to God’s promise to never flood the earth again. Also, science can’t explain how it got there so deep and in so hot of a mineral. Here’s my comment on how this happened. When water is put under pressure, it’s boiling point rises. In other words, it would take more heat to achieve the water to boil. The higher the pressure, the more heat it takes. So when the earth was flooded to 5.5 miles, there was extreme pressure at the bottom. But, that’s not the end of it. Some of our deepest oceans are 6.6 miles down. Ocean trenches are the deepest part of an ocean. The deepest one, the Marianas Trench in the South Pacific Ocean (6.6 mile down). That would be 12.1 miles down to the deepest part of the ocean during the flood. We’ll round it off to 12 miles to make the math easier.
According to scuba diving books, every 33 feet you descend in water, doubles the atmospheric pressure. There are 5,280 feet in a mile. So 5,280 times 12 = 63360 feet, which equals 1920 atmospheres (63360 divided by 33). 1920 atmospheres equals 28,216.2066837 psi. Now the average boiling point of water at 30.00inHg is 212.15 F. So if you times 30.00inHg times 1920 atmospheres equals 57600.00inHg. The boiling point of water at this atmospheric pressure is 106820.27 F. And also keep in mind that salt in the water will raise this even higher. But we will keep this simple. Wadsleyite, the mineral that holds the water that receded from the flood, stays around 1832 F or more. So 106820.27 F is well within range for the water from the flood to go into this mineral without boiling away.
Ms. Terry == also curious with everything
Genesis 7:11 11. In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were “all” the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. Notice the word “all”. God knew it would take all the waters currently on the earth to flood the earth, after all, during the creation. The earth was completely flooded with water.
Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And land did not appear until: Ge 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Ge 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
So if the earth started out covered in water, why would it be so hard to recover it with water?
The great deep is in reference to the water mentioned earlier that could fill thirty of our oceans. The windows of heaven were opened is a reference to something in a solid state (the crystalline hydrogen canopy). Now some people say: How could Noah’s boat stay afloat in all this? Genesis 7:1 1. And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. God said for Noah to come into the Ark. Not go into the Ark. Which means God was with him for the forty days and nights. Then some people ask: How did they feed all those animals. Remember when Daniel got thrown in the lions den? And what did the lord do to the lions to keep them from eating him? He did the same for the animals on the Ark.
Then some people ask: What happened to the Dinosaurs? God said he took two of every kind right? Well when they got off the Ark, the world was a very different place. There was no longer enough food around to support all the animals. So the ones that required the most food died for the lack there of.
Then some may ask: How did the dinosaurs fit onto the Ark? Simple, they were babies!
“My Secret Identity” == curious with everything
Genesis 7:11 11. In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were “all” the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. Notice the word “all”. God knew it would take all the waters currently on the earth to flood the earth, after all, during the creation. The earth was completely flooded with water.
Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And land did not appear until: Ge 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Ge 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
So if the earth started out covered in water, why would it be so hard to recover it with water?
The great deep is in reference to the water mentioned earlier that could fill thirty of our oceans. The windows of heaven were opened is a reference to something in a solid state (the crystalline hydrogen canopy). Now some people say: How could Noah’s boat stay afloat in all this? Genesis 7:1 1. And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. God said for Noah to come into the Ark. Not go into the Ark. Which means God was with him for the forty days and nights. Then some people ask: How did they feed all those animals. Remember when Daniel got thrown in the lions den? And what did the lord do to the lions to keep them from eating him? He did the same for the animals on the Ark.
Then some people ask: What happened to the Dinosaurs? God said he took two of every kind right? Well when they got off the Ark, the world was a very different place. There was no longer enough food around to support all the animals. So the ones that required the most food died for the lack there of.
Then some may ask: How did the dinosaurs fit onto the Ark? Simple, they were babies!
Brother Eli,
Pls explain 2Peter3:6 “Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: ”
was that a local flood or a global flood?
I believe in God’s Wisdom.
Bro. Eli,
If that was indeed a local flood, how come NT speaks of a world? In contrast, a “local” destruction was specifically mentioned by name “sodom & gomorrha”.
2 Peter 2:
5And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
atheists are atheists. they believe they know more but the fact is THEY KNOW LESS. i think that the atheist belief is a direct INSULT to fine human intellect. we human beings are capable of thinking ABOVE the kind of thinking atheist have. atheists believe in the concept of mercy and compassion toward another human being and they call it “humanity” yet they fail to have a plausible explanation of WHAT BENEFIT DOES THEIR HUMANITIES CONCEPT HAS TO AN INDIVIDUAL HUMAN PERSON. atheists listen to this, WHY ARE YOU SO CONCERNED ABOUT THOSE HUNGRY CHILDREN IN SUDAN? WHAT PERSONAL BENEFIT WILL YOU HAVE IF YOU FEED THOSE HUNGRY CHILDREN ON AN ATHEIST PERSPECTIVE? physical matter is not all there is. WHY DO WE FEEL MERCY? WHERE DOES THAT FEELING COME FROM? maybe you atheists have an answer. i will wait.
Bro Eli,
If local flood was true, then destruction by fire will be localized as well? Is it logical?
An additional evidence of the Deluge BEING GLOBAL and not local is the literally thousands of FLOOD STORIES from AROUND THE WORLD. One enterprising historian, Dr. Aaron Smith of the University of Greensboro, North Carolina, became obsessed with classifying all the flood accounts. “As a result of years of labor, he has collected a complete history of the literature on Noah’s Ark. There are 80,000 works in seventy-two languages about the Flood, of which 70,000 mention the legendary wreckage of the Ark” (Werner Keller, The Bible as History, 1980, p. 38).
It is hard to believe that if the Flood were only a local event, there would be 80,000 different accounts of it from around the world that describe it as UNIVERSAL in scope.
Scripture does not stand if the Flood was not global.
there is hardly a doctrine in the Bible more clearly stated than that of the global Flood. In chapters 6-10 of Genesis, the words and phrases used to describe the Flood can be interpreted in no other legitimate way.
Of course, some of the words, such as ‘all flesh died’ (7:21) might be interpreted as meaning all living things within the local area, as some modern ’scholars’ claim. But when a word can have more than one meaning, the context must define its true meaning. And in Genesis 6-10, the context is one of a global Flood! More than 30 times, words and phrases of global scope appear. In each case, the primary meaning is one of totality, but when they are all together, the meaning is crystal clear.
Compare this clear teaching with the teachings of Christ and the New Testament writers, and the conclusion is inescapable. Trying to salvage the local flood idea makes nonsense out of New Testament doctrine.
For example: the local flood theory logically implies that the Indians in North America, the natives in Africa, the Scandinavians, the Chinese, etc., were not affected by the Flood. They escaped God’s judgment on sin. If so, what could Christ possibly have meant when He likened the coming judgment of all men to the judgment of ‘all’ men (Matthew 24:37-79) in the days of Noah? A partial judgment in Noah’s day means a partial judgment to come. Scripture does not stand if the Flood was not global.
Hi zs.
Many Christians today think the Flood of Noah’s time was only a local flood, confined to somewhere around Mesopotamia. This idea comes not from Scripture, but from the notion of ‘billions of years’ of Earth history.
But look at the problems this concept involves:
If the Flood was local, why did Noah have to build an Ark? He could have walked to the other side of the mountains and missed it.
If the Flood was local, why did God send the animals to the Ark so they would escape death? There would have been other animals to reproduce that kind if these particular ones had died.
If the Flood was local, why was the Ark big enough to hold all kinds of land vertebrate animals that have ever existed? If only Mesopotamian animals were aboard, the Ark could have been much smaller.1
If the Flood was local, why would birds have been sent on board? These could simply have winged across to a nearby mountain range.
If the Flood was local, how could the waters rise to 15 cubits (8 meters) above the mountains (Genesis 7:20)? Water seeks its own level. It couldn’t rise to cover the local mountains while leaving the rest of the world untouched.2
If the Flood was local, people who did not happen to be living in the vicinity would not be affected by it. They would have escaped God’s judgment on sin.3 If this happened, what did Christ mean when He likened the coming judgment of all men to the judgment of ‘all’ men (Matthew 24:37–39) in the days of Noah? A partial judgment in Noah’s day means a partial judgment to come.
If the Flood was local, God would have repeatedly broken His promise never to send such a flood again.
Belief in a world-wide Flood, as Scripture clearly indicates, has the backing of common sense, science and Christ Himself.
Therefore, Noah’s Flood covered the whole earth.
Do u agree zs?
Few doctrines in Scripture are as clearly taught as the global nature of the Great Flood in Noah’s day. Genesis clearly teaches that “the waters . . . increased greatly . . . and the mountains were covered” (Genesis 7:18-20).
Through the centuries, few Christians questioned this doctrine. The Bible said it, and that was enough—until the late 1700s that is. For the first time the globe was being explored—the extremely lofty Himalayan Mountains were surveyed, capped by Mt. Everest at 29,035 feet in elevation. Did the waters cover them? Is there enough water on the planet to do so? The questions seemed so far-fetched that many European churchmen dismissed the idea that the Flood was global, adopting the local flood concept which still dominates Christian colleges and seminaries today. Like dominos, other doctrines soon began to fall—the young age for the earth, the special creation of plants and animals, and the inerrancy of Scripture.
We now know, of course, that the earth has plenty of water to launch a global flood. It has been calculated that if the earth’s surface were completely flat, with no high mountains and no deep ocean basins, that water would cover the earth to a depth of about 8,000 feet. But is there enough water to cover a 29,035 foot mountain?
The key is to remember that the Flood didn’t have to cover the present Earth, but it did have to cover the pre-Flood Earth, and the Bible teaches that the Flood fully restructured the earth. “The world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished” (II Peter 3:6). It is gone forever. The earth of today was radically altered by that global event.
That Flood accomplished abundant geologic work. Eroding sediments here, redepositing them there, pushing up continents, elevating plateaus, denuding terrains, etc., so that the earth today is quite different from before. Today even mountain ranges rise high above the sea.
Mt. Everest and the Himalayan range, along with the Alps, the Rockies, the Appalachians, the Andes, and most of the world’s other mountains are composed of ocean-bottom sediments, full of marine fossils laid down by the Flood. Mt. Everest itself has clam fossils at its summit. These rock layers cover an extensive area, including much of Asia. They give every indication of resulting from cataclysmic water processes. These are the kinds of deposits we would expect to result from the worldwide, world-destroying Flood of Noah’s day.
At the end of the Flood, after thick sequences of sediments had accumulated, the Indian subcontinent evidently collided with Asia, crumpling the sediments into mountains. Today they stand as giants—folded and fractured layers of ocean-bottom sediments at high elevations. No, Noah’s Flood didn’t cover the Himalayas, it formed them!
Thus we find the Biblical account not only possible, but also supported by the evidence. A pre-Flood world with lessened topographic extremes could have been covered by the Great Flood. That Flood caused today’s high mountains and deep oceans making such a flood impossible to repeat. This is just as God promised, back in Genesis.
I hope you don’t misinterpret zs.
this is great I already send it to my friends and I believe they will like it, thanks be to God.
THIS IS INTERESTING…
My interest got caught of course when reading the article by Bro. Eli.
But it got more interesting when people who are just ’starting’ to critic Bro. Eli’s articles showed what they ‘think’ right now are ‘valid’ arguments.
I tell you… I tell you… 
I hope Bro. Eli will be able to read their questions. For sure he’ll give them what they might be looking to read/hear.
Stick Around!
Dear Bro Eli,
Regarding the flood that happened during the time of Noah, how was it possible for the ark to contain such number of animals that for me seems too small if we consult the scriptures of it’s depth and width?Another thing is, how was Noah able to store food sufficient for all those animals?Lastly, did the flood reach America?I really need enlightenment for these questions of mine, and I trust that with the help of God you will be able to answer these questions, using the Scriptures as a guide…thanks be to God…
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;I Corinthians 1:27 (KJV)
Can,t wait for Bro Eli to answer his critics!
it was very different from what i believe before… now i know..i hope that my friends will read also this article… fantastic :)!!!
I therefore conclude that by the way Bro. Eli answered those imaginary people is scientiffcally and biblically true. If someone didn’t believed God’s existence are foolish. Supernatural things that is happening proves that there is GOD.
You know Greg, at FIRST GLANCE it seems that some of them were giving valid arguments. But this is not the first time I see this scenario. And over and over again many of Bro. Eli’s listeners have seen how Bro. Eli proved what is meant by being ‘SENT’ by God.
(Over those which uses the wisdom of men to try to disprove the statements of Bro. Eli.)
Like you, it’s so interesting to read what Bro. Eli have to say to them. (more so, LISTEN to what he will say about this!)
You know, I’m getting excited.
Hehehe.
Thank you for the most intelligent answer. I am hoping to see you face to face bro. Eli.
If the Flood was local, why would birds have been sent on board? These could simply have winged across to a nearby mountain range. Cel D2
Of course the mountains would be flooded because Ararat is the tallest in the vicinity and where did you get the word nearby? Can you give me a proof that if it is a local flood, there are nearby mountains?
nothing compares to that. remarkable.
{alvin M: “Can you give me a proof that if it is a local flood, there are nearby mountains?”}
Cel D2
says: Why do you require me to prove something that I do not believe in? I’ll give you mountains of proofs SCRIPTURALLY/BIBLICALLY and SCIENTIFICALLY that Noah’s flood was GLOBAL.
{alvin M: “Of course the mountains would be flooded because Ararat is the tallest in the vicinity and where did you get the word nearby?”}
Cel D2
says: And where did you get the word “local” anywhere in the scripture with regard to the flood? Let’s not be fanatics … Let’s base our stand on the WORD of GOD. I’ll give you a hint, Brother Alvin… Look at the rainbows… Now, think of the Asian tsunami last December 2004. God can not lie… but men and angels make mistakes….
Greetings to the brethren!
{alvin M: “Of course the mountains would be flooded because Ararat is the tallest in the vicinity and where did you get the word nearby?”}
Cel D2
says: And where did you get the word “local” anywhere in the scripture with regard to the flood? Let’s not be fanatics … Let’s base our stand on the WORD of GOD. I’ll give you a hint, Brother Alvin… Look at the rainbows… Now, think of the Asian tsunami last December 2004. God can not lie… but men and angels make mistakes….
Greetings to the brethren!
{alvin M: “Can you give me a proof that if it is a local flood, there are nearby mountains?”}
Cel D2
says: Why do you require me to prove something that I do not believe in? I’ll give you mountains of proofs SCRIPTURALLY/BIBLICALLY and SCIENTIFICALLY that Noah’s flood was GLOBAL.
I’m very excited for the next article! Hi alvin
you always say that verses should be interpreted in the proper context. In this case, you break that rule.
The context of the flood was for God to BLOT OUT all of humanity because of their wickedness. Earth could mean “land” or “world”, sure…. but in this context, it easily falls into the category of “world”.
bro. eli seems to have common views with http://www.answersingenesis.com.
Again, were the people in China and the rest of Asia spared? or there weren’t people there yet? Obviously, marsupials of australia were spared as well since none of them are mentioned….. cause the writers of genesis didn’t know that there is such a continent in the first place.
http://www.religioustolerance.org
http://www.evilbible.com
— Let’s base our stand on the WORD of GOD. I’ll give you a hint, Brother Alvin… Look at the rainbows… Now, think of the Asian tsunami last December 2004. God can not lie… but men and angels make mistakes…. Cel D2—
well first of all, I would like to say that you are flooding to much comments on this article. and this website is global so you are creating a global flood first in your mind and then in your answers.
But I can’t see your point in telling the rainbow and the tsunami in your post. I seem to have a glimpse of it but I am not exactly sure. The word “nearby” came from you and I am asking for a proof that there are nearby mountains that can dwarf Mount Ararat. Then you didn’t answer, you just posted a reply that where is the word local. The question you asked only shows you are avoiding to answer in the first place.
You say — I’ll give you mountains of proofs SCRIPTURALLY/BIBLICALLY and SCIENTIFICALLY that Noah’s flood was GLOBAL. —
Yet I can’t find even a mushroom size proofs. By the way, Miss Universe finalists always say that they will promote world peace. Yeah right..
The Bible, the Christians’ Holy Book, is both an exact and a spiritual science. I have three things to say on the implications of making haste, speculating, and ignorance of the bible.
First, what I understand from this post is that it imparts a basic truth, that people tend to make haste on understanding what they read without challenging themselves of the implication of such action and finding out whether an idea they tend to share and insist to be the truth is a lie for it creates conflict to another basic truth.
Second, we should never speculate and think of what ifs but rather we should focus on what is, the status quo and what is written, provided all of which are the truth, a fact and has a basis.
Lastly, Peter 3:15-17 says, And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures. Therefore, beloved, since you are forewarned, be on your guard not to be led into the error of the unprincipled and to fall from your own stability.
Therefore, people who are involved in the sharing of ideas about the things in the bible is susceptible to destruction. The bible imparts too that anyone who dares to give his opinion about biblical passages more so, lead groups of people, all of them shall be responsible of the consequences of such action. And by doing so, an unfounded faith is established. Some thought that by teaching the gospel, they are doing a good thing without understanding that the bible also says that doing a good thing does not necessarily mean that you are doing the right and holy.
Actually, the issue of worldwide flood, of how the flood took place and its boundaries, was mentioned in this article to prove a point that there really are implications of giving a false idea that becomes a source of debate, confusion and more fallacy. Indeed, this shouldn’t have been the case should these people read more and understand what the bible imparts about the flood.
What makes the flood event part of the bible? Because God said so and he does it. God cannot lie! And if He mentioned about it, like that of salvation, it is tantamount to a realisation, that he meant what he say. There is really salvation that is to happen and there is a path leading to it. That is why we need to read, per Revelation 1:3.
In conclusion, it would have been practical, logical, and biblical should those false preachers have kept their ideas to themselves rather than to lead themselves and other soul in peril.
free radicals said above that:
“It is hard to believe that if the Flood were only a local event, there would be 80,000 different accounts of it from around the world that describe it as UNIVERSAL in scope.”
I say:
This is a typical example of an idea and speculation that might have resulted from learning from another unlearned person about the bible or from himself.
Actually, when the bible says that there are souls in the ark, would mean that the story will primarily be told by Noah’s family and be passed on from generation to generation. When you pass a story, it may result to the above idea. But to have a genuine account, the bible was written with a divine guidance.
answer to Cel D2
What is expected to Noah is to primarily follow God’s instruction. Obedience was the key to his salvation.
Why would I clean the house when the instruction is to cook rice?
{elman: What is expected to Noah is to primarily follow God’s instruction. Obedience was the key to his salvation. }
Cel D2
says, “Read Genesis 6:5,11-12. Were there other people who deserved salvation just like Noah? For example: the local flood theory logically implies that the Indians in North America, the natives in Africa, the Scandinavians, the Chinese, etc., were not affected by the Flood. They escaped God’s judgment on sin. If so, what could Christ possibly have meant when He likened the coming judgment of all men to the judgment of ‘all’ men (Matthew 24:37-79) in the days of Noah? A partial judgment in Noah’s day means a partial judgment to come. Scripture does not stand if the Flood was not global. ”
{elman: Why would I clean the house when the instruction is to cook rice? }
Cel D2
says, “How many years/decades did it take Noah to build the ark? And how many days/weeks/months would have taken Noah to move from “his location that was to be flooded” to another “location that was not to be flooded” IF AND ONLY IF THE FLOOD WAS LOCALIZED? A partial judgment in Noah’s day means a partial judgment to come. Scripture does not stand if the Flood was not global. “
Well, it has been on and on.
The exchanges of ideas is good to see.
I’m sure Bro. Eli can enlighten us more on these.
Maybe not here in this ‘comments thread’, but again… whereever, it’s a good thing we’re discussing righteousness.
Fernan
{Alvin Matias: …you are creating a global flood first in your mind and then in your answers.}
Cel D2
says: Give Biblical support for “your local flood idea”. Just answer these valid questions: If the Flood was local…
1) why did Noah have to build an Ark? He could have walked to the other side of the mountains and missed it.
2) why did God send the animals to the Ark so they would escape death? There would have been other animals to reproduce that kind if these particular ones had died.
3) why was the Ark big enough to hold all kinds of land vertebrate animals that have ever existed? If only Mesopotamian animals were aboard, the Ark could have been much smaller.1
4) why would birds have been sent on board? These could simply have winged across to a nearby mountain range.
5) how could the waters rise to 15 cubits (8 meters) above the mountains (Genesis 7:20)? Water seeks its own level. It couldn’t rise to cover the local mountains while leaving the rest of the world untouched.
{Alvin Matias: Yet I can’t find even a mushroom size proofs.}
Cel D2
says: I agree… indeed you can’t even a mushroom size proof for a LOCAL FLOOD. The rainbow is a reminder of God’s covenant Genesis 9:12-15… have you been to Navotas or Malabon bro. alvin? God can not lie….
Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself? Eccle 7:16 KJV
Expect the unexpected!
I’ve read some articles written by modern day geologist and scientist about their idea of the flood in the days of Noah. They are creationist scientist they believe in the Bible and that God created every living creatures and Adam and Eve are the common anscestor of the kindreds of man. They also believe that there were only 8 souls that were saved during the deluge and also the air breathing creatures that are with them in the ark.
Indeed nowhere in the Bible can we read about “worldwide flood” they only came about the idea of a universal deluge because of their findings and discoveries in the rock strata of earth across the continents which they believe that the event that has caused it was the flood during noah’s time, namely:
1) their belief about pangaea or super continent is that the continents of today were not separated as it is today by just looking at the eastern border of south america and the western border of africa it can give us an idea that such continents was once connected to one another otherwise migration or scattering of people to different areas of the globe would be difficult in primitive times. They cited Methuselah’s name means that the water would come on the day of after his death, and a paticular biblical personality whose name means dividing or separation of continents. Is it accurate with respect to direct biblical knowledge? The flood of Noah might have caused the gradual separation of the super continent Pangea. For the people to cross between continents there were land bridges before the land masses were separated far away from one another.
2) Their understanding of the flood instead of local to where the ark was but global because of the account in Genesis 7 which gave them the idea that the water rose to cover tall mountains otherwise some creatures would have survived the torrents. They are also aware of the fact that the ark was neither mobile nor meant to travel, but to stay afloat so to keep noah, his family and the animals safe from the torrents. Gen 7:20 probably gave them the idea to suppose that the flood was global because the animals of the same kind were found buried in different areas miles apart. Fossilized creatures are scattered in separate continents as they are discovered or dugged today.
Gen 7:17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bore up the ark, and it was lifted up above the earth.
Gen 7:18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
3) The body of waters such as the falls found in different areas of the world, many scientists associate it with the flood of Noah because average rain fall wouldn’t be adequate to sustain the volume of the waters cascading from enormous falls such as Niagara and Victoria Falls. They believe that such vast and natural water shed could be traced back from the waters that have risen too high that are not yet been drained to this time.
4) In the earth’s rock strata. Several burial sites of organism spanning the different continents today were dugged around the globe which includes the Polar Regions, creationist scientists supposed that the flood have caused quick or rapid burial (fossilization) to air breating creatures that most of the animals died like with great fear of drowning and their heads positioned upward. There are fossilized mammoths found in North America and there are also mammoth burial sites found in Africa and Arctic regions.
5) Scientist believed that because of Noah’s flood there were no deserts during the early days right after the flood waters subsided as the environment was supposedly moist. The collapse in water canopy (Gen 8:10 and the windows of heaven were opened) in the atmosphere caused sun rays to deeply penetrate the soil in the earth’s surface with prolonged and continual exposure to the heat of the sun and inadequate rainfall have caused the formation of vast arid land areas found in africa, middle east and american continent. They claimed that such collapse in water canopy causes the down pour in the days of Noah eventually caused drastic changes in earth’s temperature. In that from the perrenial mild climate in the entire world, specific areas upon the earth can either experience extremely cold or warm climate in a particular time of the year.
6) Without the flood of Noah scientist concluded that it would not be possible to find fossils of organism living in water such as jelly fishes, mollusks, shell fishes and others in mountain peaks and hilltops!
7) Some scientists consider that the massive distribution of sediments across continents may be attributed to the deluge of moving water referring to the flood in Noah’s day; moving flood waters have contributed to the formation of canyons found in North and South America.
Noah’s flood also triggers ice age which have caused some drastic changes in earth’s temperature from mild and moist climate to extreme coldness and warmth in the climate within specific areas. Scientists perceived that the triggerring of ice age and extreme coldness have harshly affected cold-blooded organisms such as reptiles including but not limited to the extinct dinosaus that such cold-blooded animals failed to adapt to the drastic climatic shift. Excavated dinosaur fossils from almost visible part of the earth’s rock strata according to them speak of the quite recent extinction of dinosaurs due to the onset of cold climate. This is in contrary to the naturalist scientists or evolutionists claim that the dinosaurs have long become extinct before the man’s emergence upon the earth.
9) Probably the reason why the salty body of water such as the ocean or sea need not be flooded because it may affect the level of salinity of the water required by the organisms that inhabit the naturally saline environment and for the fact that salinity in sea water when reduced or dilluted a bit would modify or alter its capacity to preseve its cleanliness or sanitation.
10) Some scientist made a report that there were satellite and plane pilot’s sightings of the ark of Noah atop Mt. Ararat. That strenghten their faith because of the allegedly preserved Noah’s ark at a peak of the Mt. Ararat. They even publicized a aerail view photograph taken from the mountain peak of Mt. Ararat which shows a wooden object covered by blocks of ice as that object could be a portion of the ark. Reportedly there was even a risky but painstaking exploration that was conducted and the team has reached the spot where the ark is suppossedly perched the ark was covered with ice. Personally, I believe that the ark can really be preserved to this date with that high altitude, cold temperature and glacier environment at the peaks of Mt. Ararat.
11) The creationist scientists too often attribute their archeological findings with the events accounted in the books of Moses, the Genesis in particular with respect to the flood. They also believe that the parting of the waters in red sea as it is accounted in the book of Exodus. Relics have been found in that region such as ruined chariots and some Egyptian artifacts which were supposedly the ones worn and carried along by pharoah’s armies and captains as they follow the escaping Israelites.
My question to Bro. Eli is there accuracy in or what degree of precision has the attribution of some scientific studies and findings to Biblical account in the Book of Genesis? How credible are their reports as summarized above? Does it conform or oppose to the truths in God’s Word?
Thanks and Best Regards,
-Round-Eyed
this time samuel MAY have a good point in saying and i quote: “The context of the flood was for God to BLOT OUT all of humanity because of their wickedness. Earth could mean “land” or “world”, sure…. but in this context, it easily falls into the category of “world”.”. he may be referring to Gen. 6:6-7 “And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.” but to my dismay, he again FALSELY ACCUSED the bible by saying and i quote him:”The context of the flood was for God to BLOT OUT all of humanity” and suddenly contradicts himself by saying and i quote him:”because of their wickedness”. obviously ONLY WICKED HUMAN BEINGS DIED OUT ACCORDING TO HIM BUT ALSO ACCORDING TO HIM GOD BLOTTED OUT ALL OF HUMANITY. IS NOAH AND HIS FAMILY WICKED? samuel, are you in your proper senses?
I expect elman and alvin to provide Biblical support for a localized flood…
this question is directed to samuel. you said and i quote:”Obviously, marsupials of australia were spared as well since none of them are mentioned….. cause the writers of genesis didn’t know that there is such a continent in the first place.”. my question to you is HOW SURE ARE YOU THAT THERE ARE MARSUPIALS ALREADY IN AUSTRALIA WHEN THE GREAT FLOOD OCCURRED IF YOU DONT BELIEVE THAT SUCH GREAT FLOOD EVER OCCURRED AT ALL? samuel, i think you should be sure of what you believe in because you dont make sense at all. YOU SOUND SO ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THAT THERE ARE MARSUPIALS ALREADY IN AUSTRALIA AT THE TIME WHEN THE GREAT FLOOD OCCURRED AND YET AT THE SAME TIME YOU DONT BELIEVE THAT SUCH GREAT FLOOD OCCURRED AT ALL! remember, your thoughts are being read all over the world and for me ITS REALLY A SHAME IF MY THOUGHTS ARE FOUND IGNORABLE. i did’nt said your thoughts are ignorable im just saying please make sense of what you are saying.
atheist, where are you now??? i hope that some of you are Open minded
Your imaginary knowledge will never withstand against the knowledge given by our God to Bro. Eli,
Bro. Eli your the Best!
SAMUEL, HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE IN SOMETHING WHICH YOU DONT BELIEVE? IT DOES’NT REALLY MAKE SENSE.
Samuel said:
Again, were the people in China and the rest of Asia spared? or there weren’t people there yet? Obviously, marsupials of australia were spared as well since none of them are mentioned….. cause the writers of genesis didn’t know that there is such a continent in the first place.
This is a valid question - I supposed. If we are going to believe the bible (which I really do) - mankind starts from that place called Eden and spreadout to the nearby place. People tend to stick together which I believe that those places (China and rest of Asia…
don’t have people yet. The flood came first before the building of tower of babel which spread out the man according to the bible.
Since we’re not there personally to see for ourselves but the bible give us details and things for us to think. We might not know all the answer now but we have to believe what the bible say: “Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.” - Isa 34:16
We cannot measure something infinite with our finite mind.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. - Isa 55:9
I hears someone said:
For those who believe no explanation is needed but for those who don’t no explanation can suffice.
I’m getting excited for Bro. Eli’s answer.
Cheers.
{ Cel D2 says 1) why did Noah have to build an Ark? He could have walked to the other side of the mountains and missed it. }
Impertinent. I just told my answer in my previous post. You say, that he should have walk the other side of the mountain is highly impertinent. Not because it is a local flood means you have the luxury to walk on the other side of the mountains. Maybe the term local to you is like the size of Navotas. So you keep on repeating the same old redundant question. And let me asked you again for the second time and I know you will just avoid such question as you have avoided it many times. Is there any mountain near that can dwarf Mount Ararat? so you can just walk on the other side of the mountain you are claiming. Ok let me ask you again because I don’t know if I should do this in a nursery way. Is There Any Mountain Near That Can Dwarf Ararat? Ok I’ll repeat the question again children. Is… there…. any… mountain… near… that… can… dwarf… Ararat….?….So your conclusion that if it is a local flood Noah can just walk on the other side of the mountain is absurd and a sesame street question. He just can’t and won’t because there are no mountains near that can be bigger than Mount Ararat. And by the way Mount Ararat is 16, 873 ft and Mount Lebanon is 10,540 ft, Hermon 9232 ft. Sinai is 6888 ft. Ebal is 3100 ft. Mount of Olives is 2657 ft. Zion is 2541 ft. And Nebo 2706 ft. It’s a good thing that you are not Noah because if it so happen, you will just walk on the other side of the mountain and eventually drowned because you didn’t just simply obey what God said. So maybe you can try Mount Everest because it is higher than Ararat and eat snow there and freeze to death and all the animals with you. By the way the distance of Mount Everest and Mount Ararat is 2500 miles long. Maybe you can try walking a hundred miles long with your dog (not the whole animal kingdom, just your dog together with a bag of Pedigree) and see for yourself the agony and pity you would inflict on your self. Just joking but I suggest you try it.
To Cel D2
“For those who believe no explanation is needed but for those who don’t believe, no explanation can suffice.”
“Cel D2:-)” and “my secret identity” seems to clash in terms of sedimentary rocks found on top of the mountains that were seen by geologists.
“Cel D2:-)” point was that - At the end of the Flood, after thick sequences of sediments had accumulated, the Indian subcontinent evidently collided with Asia, crumpling the sediments into mountains. Today they stand as giants—folded and fractured layers of ocean-bottom sediments at high elevations. No, Noah’s Flood didn’t cover the Himalayas, it formed them!
Thus we find the Biblical account not only possible, but also supported by the evidence. A pre-Flood world with lessened topographic extremes could have been covered by the Great Flood. That Flood caused today’s high mountains and deep oceans making such a flood impossible to repeat. This is just as God promised, back in Genesis.
“my secret identity” mentioned: If there were a worldwide flood, the illustrated destructive forces would have been in operation during and subsequent to this event. The result would be the rapid accumulation of very thick sedimentary deposits over massive regions. During such an event, valleys would be filled with sediment thousands of feet thick.
———————————————————————
>>>>>>>>>What then can the bible say about those ideas about sedimentary rocks?
I understand that the waters exist first before the earth:
6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
There you go with your sedimentary rocks. But what about the buried animals in other parts of the world and high Himalayas Mountains and the like? Answer, migration plus earthquake, etc!
Of course assumptions can lead to more fallacy like what the other posters commenting here. Let’s ask bro Eli about this.
————————————————————————-
“Cel d:-)” said: …Gor example: the local flood theory logically implies that the Indians in North America, the natives in Africa, the Scandinavians, the Chinese, etc., were not affected by the Flood. They escaped God’s judgment on sin. If so, what could Christ possibly have meant when He likened the coming judgment of all men to the judgment of ‘all’ men (Matthew 24:37-79) in the days of Noah? A partial judgment in Noah’s day means a partial judgment to come. Scripture does not stand if the Flood was not global.
I say, the flood was localised since the verse was talking about the hearers of the warning and did not pay much attention to it.
What was written is that it will happen right after the gospel has been preached to all nation that no man can find excuse of his works.
Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
After the so called “rapture” (laymans’ term) does the end begins? Actually no, Jesus Christ will reign a thousand years together with those included in the “rapture” first afterwhich the end will come, right?
The point here is that the hypocrites can’t say out loud but rather insinuates here that people tend to get killed even if they are just innocent bystanders. Some may have not heard the good news but then, they were swallowed by the great flood?
Let me just say, that even if you die in anyway, God the Father has His way of judging you.
______________________________________________
I just read above:“For those who believe no explanation is needed but for those who don’t believe, no explanation can suffice.”
______________________________________________
Matthew 24
36″No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;
39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.
41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
42″Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.
43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
45″Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
After the so called “rapture” (laymans’ term) does the end begins? Actually no, Jesus Christ will reign a thousand years together with those included in the “rapture” first afterwhich the end will come, right?
The point here is that the hypocrites can’t say out loud but rather insinuates here that people tend to get killed even if they are just innocent bystanders. Some may have not heard the good news but then, they were swallowed by the great flood. They question God’s plan and intellect which is immeasurable.
Let me just say, that even if you die in anyway, God the Father has His way of judging you. But it does not necessarily follows that there was a great flood that swept the planet earth.
Some cannot accept that the planet earth can be flooded while others cannot believe that Noah’s experience was just a localised one.
What satisfies your concern when you believe that Noah’s experience was a worldwide flood?
How come many of us insists of this idea?
Would these belief affect us all? Of course it will!
For atheist, they really question God’s sense of mercy and judgement the reason why they turned away from God so much that they thought, it is them who gives mercy if they wanted it too.
With this thought in mind, plus the discipline contributed by the so called scholars and learned men, not of the bible, but solely on the facts they themselves made a law, some people becomes intellectually and emotionally affected thereby not accepting the existence of a God!
With many a theory that the planet earth can be flooded, it does not necessarily mean that it happened during Noah’s time.
We can provide assumptions and create stories for all we care, but the truth remains, the bible was stating a world an earth, not the whole planet earth, specifically a part of the planet earth where the experience happened to those people concerned.
They were given a warning but did not took heed of it save Noah. Every details given by God, he followed.
Genesis
6:22 Noah did everything just as God commanded him.
7:5 And Noah did all that the LORD commanded him.
They were given a warning but did not take heed of it save Noah. Every details given by God, he followed.
Genesis
6:22 Noah did everything just as God commanded him.
7:5 And Noah did all that the LORD commanded him.
@ quiel’s post 43
Like the main article, namimilosopo ka rin, ikaw ata ghost writer nung flood article eh. Mankind except for Noah’s family DAW kasi he was righteous DAW. kaya nga may ark eh. please don’t waste time in childish banter.
“YOU DO NOT FLOOD THE SEAS”. This is a good argument if you believe that the flood that covered the “land” is… uhm, above sea level, or just an over-sized puddle near mt. ararat…. in which case, that can hardly blot out humankind.
you revel in your own inadequate comprehension skills and make a long post out of it. sayang lang oras.
@ quiel’s post 45
If you believe in real scientists (not the creation scientists that get their science diplomas in bible colleges), fossil records, carbon dating, evolution, marsupials have been around for millions of years. No mention of it is found in the bible because, none of the writers have seen one.
I’ll spell it out for you again. please read carefully:
I do not believe that the Bible Flood ever happened, and the time that it ALLEGEDLY happened (according to the bible, approx 5000-6000 years ago) MARSUPIALS HAVE ALREADY BEEN AROUND FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS in Australia, China and other places.
The point is: Noah’s big boat cannot account for the hundreds of marsupial species found in Australia and other parts of the world, never mind that it was never mentioned.
Unless you insist that Noah and the flood happened millions of years ago… then fine.
Elman, I do not question god’s motives for the flood because:
1) I do not believe he exists.
2) I do not belive that the bible flood ever happened.
What I question is the fanatical belief despite it’s contradictory to scientific findings and facts (not creation scientists please, the real ones). I question the logical paradox behind an omnipotent/all-knowing creator and the blunders that caused him to “restart” creation by blotting out humanity (except for Noah and his crew–this is for quiel cause he/she is sloooooow).
Stop trying to reconcile science and the bible. just say science is all BS and the devil’s work anyway and be done with it.
—————————————————————–
Atheist: those who do not believe in Zeus, Poseidon, Bathala, Thor, Yahweh, Vishnu, Ganesh, Krishna, and possibly Tikbalangs, Dragons, Fairies, Santa Clause,
Dwendes, unicorns and other myths.
galing po ah…
to God be the GLOry…
napadaan lang poh,
[|=={]:::::moris::::>
To samuel and to the other atheist
Given that there is no god, without accepting,
As an atheist, why do you care?
I think, with your faith and belief, your principle in life is that you do not account to anyone or “anything”, save yourself.
If you feel you are not responsible, obligated, or even accountable to anyone, why care?
Of course, you can care or you don’t care for all you want but the fact remains, you cannot accept that a god can let people die by just saying so, even the innocent ones. And if that god is the source of all mercy, why this things happen. Yes a god can do that but the question is, which God? Is it Allah, Bathala, Jesus Christ, etc?
I think you have learned about a god, his principle, those things he do which man can comprehend, excluding those we cannot comprehend, the wrong way.
And you are just parroting the same questions the “old atheists” has been asking or stating since time immemorial.
I myself asked, which god are people talking about when they pray? Is it The God that cannot lie? (Siya ba yung Dios na di makapagsisinungaling?) Does He have separate, different law, principle, sense of justice and mercy compared to those gods?
Can you lie? Of course even I can lie. Then why should i believe you, or vice versa, if you and me can lie?
There will come a time that you will not even believe yourself, and if that time comes, I hope you’ll seek and find Him, to whom you will put your hope, and trust with.
But to get back to your question:
What I question is the fanatical belief despite it’s contradictory to scientific findings and facts (not creation scientists please, the real ones).
I question the logical paradox behind an omnipotent/all-knowing creator
and the blunders that caused him to “restart” creation by blotting out humanity (except for Noah and his crew–this is for quiel cause he/she is sloooooow).
My Answer:
1 and 2. Can anyone prove that the science they are talking about is the real truth? Would it be the whole truth when there is still left to discover? Has anyone discovered the fullness of earth or what not man can do? Can they cure cancer, AIDS, etc.?
Can they grow hair on men?
What is your example of scientific findings contradicted by biblical verses?
Is it not you who has a fanatical belief? I am asking you too because you stopped believing in God, you stopped seeking the truth. You insinuate that you have no value in you. Is it not you who is living in a make believe. You have your own world where spiritual beings are non existent. Is that the world you are insinuating as the “reality”?
Personally, I see no value in persons like you, walang kuwenta. Tell me, what good is believing that you are just you, you know science, and you will just die, sooner or later.
Because the life you are insisting, the life without God, is a life that can be compared to that of an animal. I see an askal ( a street dog) that wanders around our place, it was seen by drunkards and killed it, turned into pulutan ( appetizer). And what shall I say to the drunkards, hey, please, do not kill the animal, because it’s wrong? Because it’s inhuman? What makes you human? Is it because of force of nature? Isa ka lang bang singaw tapos paghinipan ng hangin, mawawala na? Are you just a fart, everybody notices til the smell disappears. Do you eat meat? If you eat meat, then you have no mercy. For all you know, the life you have is tantamount to the life of the meat or even the plant you ate last night. If you seek mercy, then don’t eat, let yourself die starving since it is you who can give mercy.
What good will that makes us to believe in you? You will die too, and you will leave people behind you wandering even wondering more what comes next after this life. I will die too, what good is knowing you, knowing me?
Of course you don’t care. But since I learned that God wants all man to be saved, that means he values every human being. And Jesus Christ said, respect men. So, I think otherwise now, I still see value in you, because of my faith and belief. By the way, who is that God? He is not the combination of gods or ideas by people, even those who don’t believe in Him. Or maybe, because of combination of beliefs, like karma, serendipity, etc. In this compounded, complex, adulterated beliefs and faith, I think it is lucky for you to realize that you are going further away from the truth. I said this because many people I talk to has no idea of such because they don’t care or even bother to think about it.
>>> If you do not believe in God, why ask of what He did about Noah’s time? Why ask of what He can do?
Can you differentiate The Merciful God bro Eli speaks of from the merciless god that you know.
I cannot see the logic of asking further about a none existent thing.
I just read above:“For those who believe no explanation is needed but for those who don’t believe, no explanation can suffice.”
But in regard to my belief, He is existing and He is The Almighty God I learned compared to the god you know.
What I can share to you is that, and i know you believe it too, that the pyramid was standing because of a good foundation and materials used. But the pyramid is not that close to my faith, because no one can tell if the pyramid will soon succumed to the laws of wear and tear. But my faith, since it was founded on the pillar and the ground of truth, it will stand the test of time, remain til the end.
Our faith has no loopholes.
Daniel 12:
1 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. 4 But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”
9 He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.
Since you are commenting here, I hope you feel this verse:
Isa 29:24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.
My basis is the Bible. Now just like what bro Eli says, if we talk outside the bible, we are just talking nonesense and just story telling.
Come back to reality, accept our God.
Try to know our God first by listening to our doctrines one at a time.
You will know how merciful The God we call our God.
You will learn to sort and get rid off of the information about the gods of people who in some ways formed you to be an Atheist in heart and in mind.
Now, after listening to our doctrines from the first to the last portion, it will all be up to you then to decide whether to remain an atheist or be a true Christian member of the Church of God, Paul preaches.
For Elman
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
Elman said “just say science is all BS and the devil’s work anyway and be done with it.” So u balieve that there is devil the god of this world that blinded your mind.
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
last post were meant to samuel not elma. my apology to elamn
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
to samuel:
said “just say science is all BS and the devil’s work anyway and be done with it.” So u balieve that there is devil the god of this world that blinded your mind.
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
to cel d2: do you mean during noah’s time there are already chinese,indians in north america etc. you mean diff.languages? consider the verse Gen.11:1-9
to “my secret identity”: Grand Canyon needs 40 million years to developed.Gen.1:24-25 dinosaur’s was created first before men. Jurassic period began about 200million years ago and lasted 55 million years.Gen.1:12 plants and trees created first before dinosaurs. Before the first man was created it rains! Gen.2:5-6. how old do you think noah now, from our time?
It is expected that others will disagree to what someone is saying…
who you are calling big boat….i think it is definite to call it an ark or a ship…
Maybe at the first place…they don’t BELIEVE in GOD…you will expect that they would not believe in the word of GOD and all of it’s content at all… I’m just giving a piss thinking out of it…
It’s kind of a sad feeling…they RAISE their SWORDS to the ONE who made them…
Even though i should rather say…think and think aloud…do not sought on your own und