Or you guys are just emulating the biblical god’s evil deeds? I read only a few pages of the bible but it already gave me the impression that the actual villain of the story is god and not satan. Do you want to take the challenge and compare what the atrocities god and satan did as mentioned in the bible? Remember we will reference your bible, no more no less. Or you will just cower and curse me?

Rowland

Tim Kurek
http://UriahMinistries.wordpress.com

p.s. I am working on, what will be, my first book… I will let you know when it is being published!

We are discussing here about the topic Bro. Eli brought up in his article, ”Was Peter Really the Rock?” Even though Bro. Eli attempted to deny that Peter was really the Rock, but he has to admit that the name Peter means “Rock”, the name Jesus gave to Simon and truly Simon is the Rock, therefore we call Simon as Peter, the Rock. I want you to be aware that the idea of calling “Simon as Peter (in Aramic Chefas), or the Rock (English), is from Jesus Himself and NOT from other people, not from other Christian later on, NOT even from RCC. It is FROM Jesus himself. So Jesus CALLED Simon PETER and Brother Eli does not want to call Peter, the Rock…Is it funny isn’t it?

Jesus did not call Simon, “You are “a” Peter”, you are “little pebble” but you are “peter,” you are the rock.. So Simon is Peter, and ONLY Simon is called by the name of PETER, and not other disciples, not other Christian, NOT even Jesus, though Jesus is the “corner stone” but we don’t call Jesus as “Peter” right? We don’t call Jesus Peter right? We call Jesus Christ….So when we mention “Peter”, we know what we mean. When we call PETER, we don’t mean Jesus right? Only Simon is Peter, Simon is the Rock. So those who deny Simon as the Rock, deny Jesus Himself who have called Simon as Peter…

Jesus never called other person, other community, as “Peter” the Rock right? Therefore, your quotations from the Bible regarding to the word “rock” needed to put in its context in order to understand those words. For example the word “apostle” we can use that word “apostle” to call you, to call bro. Eli, to call other pastors as apostle depend on what context we understand it…but when we mention “the apostles” we know what we mean right? It is for the TWELVE..(and Paul and Barnabas) The same case with the word “rock”. Even thought St. Paul or Peter himself use the word rock about Jesus, but we don’t call Jesus as “Peter” right? ONLY SIMON is PETER.

And remember also that when Jesus called Simon as PETER, the other disciples did not question or complain about it. They all accepted that Simon as “Peter”, as the Rock, until now we call Simon as Peter, and not “a” peter”

The second phrase, “upon this rock, I will build my church” Here is the trouble for many people including Bro. Eli. It is clearly that this phrase “ upon this “rock” Jesus refers “rock” to “the rock” Who is the Rock? Simon Peter. Jesus builds his church in the foundation of Peter, meaning Peter and the disciples, Peter as the head. He built His Church on earth, upon the foundation of Simon Peter as the leader of the Apostles, and the Apostles will continue to work the mission of Jesus in unity with Peter. And we celebrate the birth of the Church is on day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was sent down.

Elmantheman, even though you might not accept that Peter was the Rock, but you have to admit that the word Peter meaning Rock….and only Simon is called Peter…

Elmantheman….
I want to invite you to see more the meaning of the Church built on Peter…
When we learn about the history of early Christian, the history of the Bible, the history of the Church’s tradition, the whole history of the Church until now, we come to believe that Jesus really founded His church upon Simon “Peter” as the Rock. I can say that because the Church founded upon Peter has some characteristic of Simon personalities. You and I know that Simon is very weak person right? He is not a perfect person. Like Simon, the Church is also not perfect because the Church consists of human and divine aspect. There are many ups and down in the life of the Church, many troubles (some troubles you have already mentioned, and I personally admitted that because that is part of the history of the Church that is “operated” by human being…human made mistakes right?). And there are many challenges will come, maybe also the challenge from you too but as Jesus said to Simon Peter, that the Church will not fail, the Church will not collapses, the Church is always reformed, and the Church always prevail every trouble and challenge because it is founded upon Simon Peter, the Lord said to him, the power of evil will not overcome it. Even though the Church has many weaknesses but it does not mean the Church lost its grace and authority. Just like Peter himself. There were many times Peter made mistakes but he always come back to Jesus ask for forgiveness. He denied Jesus, he did not practice what he teaches, but he is still be Peter, the other disciples still accept Peter as their leader, they did not condemn him, the still respect him, and Peter has the full authority over the other disciples. Peter gave his life for Jesus by dying on the cross upside down. Peter is the Rock… This is the same image of the Church. In its weakness, (like Peter) the Church is carrying the message of God like vessel on earth. Many times the people of the Church fails, the people in the Church make mistake including our leaders, but its still be the Church of Christ like we accept and respect Peter as the leader of the Twelve. Like Simon always be “Peter”, the Rock, the Church also always be “the Church” founded by Jesus. After 2000 years the Church still exist and has significant role in the world.

Elmantheman, the church based on Peter is a humble church…a church that consist of sinners…we are all sinner…. We are all weak..like Peter….we are all need JESUS to purify us….maybe you are not…because your Church is perfect and never fail…good luck for you….But we are the church of sinners…we need Christ to always give us strengths and lift us up when we fail….Just like PETER…

Secondly, I would like to comment on your question “Is Catholic Church biblical”?

(When I was reading your question it sounds to me like the Pharesees tries to “disturb” Jesus saying, oh Jesus… you do not do this, you do not do that…. you don’t do things according to Law, according to Bible. But Jesus said that He came not to “change” anything from the Law, from the Bible because Jesus is always with the Law.)

I want to tell you that your question about “Is Catholic Church is Biblical” for me is “Out of Question” (sorry if I am being too proud here…) Anyway what do you mean by “Church Bible based?” Can you tell me what does it mean?

For me the Church always walk with the Bible, the Bible is our Guide, the center for us, and in fact the “fathers” of the RCC were the ones who gather all the words of God, (they discussed and debated which books really inspired) and then formed those books become what we called “Bible” today and in which “you” use to judge RCC. Again, your question is out of date for me. But I can understand your situation why you asked that question because you are not sure in what foundation you stand, and also about your church if your church is Biblical or not therefore you are really concerned about being “biblical or not” , but for RCC that is not a question.
Your group is worry so much because you are not sure in what foundation you stand. Therefore, you pick up one verse to support your possition and then claim that your church is biblical church. Hey but that is okay, no problem for me as far as your feel you have a “biblical” church. But the most important thing is if your “biblical church” carries the mission of Jesus that is to love other especially to love your enemy.

So like your Bro. Eli he always “love” the Manalo Church by critizing them that is good for him, and for you too because you guys do biblical thing. He never said bad things about other church, he love his enemy so much…and you can do also like to critize people and say bad things to other, as part of your “love enemy”. So your “biblical church has to carry the message of love and peace…

Peace and love of Christ be with you….