Ignorant of His Own Ignorance
June 22, 2007 72 Comments
In your comment to my earlier post “The Church of God is Needed for Salvation,” you asserted without proof that it is not the physical body of Christ that delivered the Church. I am posting what you wrote in the red letters that follow:
“THE SPIRIT IS THAT WHICH MAKES ALIVE, THE FLESH FROFITS NOTHING, THE WORDS THAT WHICH I HAVE SPOKEN TO YOU ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE.”” …”The flesh profits nothing he said”.
Well, it doesn’t require a theologian to understand this, does it? Attentive children with eyesight of 20/20 would get his point.
It is the words, not the flesh and blood that delivered them, that one must eat and drink to receive eternal life, Is it not?”
You concluded that it is not the flesh and the blood (of Christ) that delivered them that one must eat and drink, but the words. May I advice you to be more careful next time in concluding anything without due investigation first. In Colossians 1:22, it says:
“In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblamable and unreprovable in his sight…”
It is clear in the preceding verse that it is His body of flesh, which He offered through death. Your conclusion that it is the word that redeems is illogical because the word does not die, but the flesh. Through the death of the ‘sinless flesh’ of Jesus, we are sanctified. The ‘we’ I am mentioning is the Church of God, to whom these epistles were written for. Hebrews 10:10 clarifies that further.
“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
The Church, or the ‘we’, is the entity being sanctified by the offering of His body of flesh. It is not the Church (as body) being offered as sacrifice, but His body of flesh, that the body or the Church maybe sanctified.
(Ephesians 5:25-27) “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.”
The act of giving Himself for the Church sanctified it. How? Through the washing of water by the word. Which water will sanctify the Church? The water and the blood which oozed from the fleshly body of the Lord Jesus Christ.
(John 19:24) “But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.”
The topic of discussion which you sighted in John chapter 6 does not speak of redemption. The topic is how to have eternal life. Anyone who wants to live eternally with God must eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. In the entire chapter, the bread and the meat being mentioned refers to the word of God. It is the bread which came down from heaven that gives eternal life to anybody who will receive it.
(John 6:50-56) “This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, how can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.”
When the Jews heard this, they were offended because they presumed that our Lord Jesus Christ is speaking of His physical flesh and blood, so, He clarified by saying that He is speaking of spiritual things.
(John 6:60-61,63) “Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is a hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?”
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
In your comment, you hastily concluded that the phrase “the flesh profits nothing” refers to the flesh of the Lord Jesus Christ. I will copy your comment in red letters.
“So what about the flesh? once again which is very important to your doctrine. He said : “The flesh profits nothing” meaning from Jesus’ viewpoint (in contrast to St. Paul’ viewpoint), the flesh, his flesh with its blood gains nothing for anyone . Is flesh important or not? if not, then how is it possible to redeem your so called church by his flesh?”
You even have erroneously concluded that the viewpoint of Christ is in contrast to the viewpoint of the apostle Paul. That is the greatest mistake that you have committed!
Let me scientifically prove this to you. Just what does the Bible mean “the flesh profits nothing”? Is it the flesh of the Lord Jesus Christ? Or the flesh of those who hear His words? If you received the words of the Lord Jesus, symbolic of the bread and the blood, it is not your flesh that will profit, but the spirit in you. The food for spirit is spiritual.
(1 Peter 3:4) “But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.”
“The flesh profits nothing” does not mean the flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, as you concluded, “gains nothing for anyone”. It is His flesh that suffered, afflicted, wounded, beaten, and have died — not His word.
(Isaiah 53:3-5) “He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.”
It is His body of flesh that was wounded that we may be healed or redeemed.
The apostle Peter clarified this further (I hope you are not in bad terms with the apostle Peter as you are with Paul).
(1 Peter 2:24) “Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.”
The ‘body’ on the tree is not the ‘word’. It (the body) bore our sins. It is the body on the tree that was stricken with stripes that we may be healed.
Let me tell you something to think about so that next time you will not be too hasty in your conclusions. Speaking of redemption, it is the body of Christ that was offered for redemption of sins. Speaking of having eternal life, the words of the Lord Jesus will provide it. These are two different topics which you mixed, and erroneously interpreted by your own preconceived idea.
Note the following verse:
(John 6:68) “Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life.”
Although redemption and eternal life are correlated matters, they are not the same thing. The ‘flesh profits nothing’ does not mean the flesh of Christ; after all, He is not speaking to Himself but, to the Jews with bodies of flesh.
See the point?
This is a brotherly advice: Do not ever say again that the Church established by God through the Lord Jesus Christ is not vital to salvation. The only one true Church in the Bible did not branch into more than 38,000 denominations as you claim. These are not branches; they are fake churches founded by man.
(Romans 10:3) “For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.”
If a tree produced branches, they are genuine parts of the tree. If there are 38,000 denominations, as you claim now (I do not know where you got the statistics), they are not branches (look it up in the dictionary).
noun (plural branch·es)
1. part of tree growing from trunk: a woody limb of a tree that grows out from a larger limb or from the trunk
2. botany part of plant stem or root: a subdivision of the stem, root, or flower cluster of a plant
3. something like tree branch: something that resembles a branch of a tree in structure
the branches of the stag’s antlers
The Mormons that practice polygamy is not a branch of Christianity. It is fake Christianity.
(1 Timothy 3:2) “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach…”
Polygamy is not allowed to Christians, but the founder of the Mormon Church collected more than 40 wives, according to a book written by J. Oswald Sanders. (See clip below)
Do not ever say again that, “anyone who will say that the Church is needed for salvation is not only ignorant, but ignorant of his own ignorance”, who is now ignorant of his own ignorance? Is it me or you? I do not want to judge you.